The non-existent "vertical game"

[Haiku_Dirtt]

Originally Posted by Mosca

If Roethlisberger is going to be compared favorably ?

Two things will have to happen for me. He needs to drop back in the pocket at least once per game without facing an avalanche.

And he must curtail that self-destructive tendency to force poorly thrown "passes" into double and triple coverage.

Granted I missed most of the first half (praying for NFL Replay...I think) but I'm soooooo tired of watching Ben prove his escapability. His Red Zone stats last night were very outstanding though.

[Atlanta Dan]

Originally Posted by Haiku_Dirtt

Granted I missed most of the first half (praying for NFL Replay...I think) .

I would assume Steelers-Broncos and Titans-Texans are locks for NFL Replay this week

[steelpride12]

I like our play actions more than anything. With a great TE like Miller he is capable of getting open in the middle for a big gain like he did last night. Its just that Ben needs the time to throw the ball!

[Atlanta Dan]

Originally Posted by Haiku_Dirtt

Granted I missed most of the first half (praying for NFL Replay...I think) but I'm soooooo tired of watching Ben prove his escapability. His Red Zone stats last night were very outstanding though.

NFL Network has scheduled Steelers-Broncos for NFL Replay at 8 pm EDT this Wednesday. I will watch it to see what was going on with the D.

[Preacher]

Originally Posted by Big D

I couldnt agree with you more. Ben isnt Carson, Brady or manning. We need to go back to steeler football. Run first.... We faced the worst run defense in the league and we got pass freaking happy.I think between davenport and parker they should have had 40 carries between the two of them. It's funny to me when willie struggles how quickly we are to abandon the run. But yet when benny was fumbling and throwing ints in the first half we kept throwing. I think that we should have hired a proven expierienced offensive coordinator

Yes.. we faced the team FIRST IN PASS DEFENSE... and put up 4 TD's THROUGH THE AIR... How can we really argue with that?

Our problem was that the defense was not able to get off the field on 3rd downs. That one issue alone changed the face of the game.

And going back to a run first offense is the WORST THING WE COULD EVER DO. Show me ONE... just ONE of Cowher's teams that would have been able to pick up 2 touchdowns in the fourth quarter and put us in the position to tie/win?

In that run first team, we would have been lucky to get 7 points in the fourth quarter. Going back to the past will not give us hope in the future. Rolling our defense up onto the line and bumping the receivers coming off the line will help us win games. The defense getting pressure on the QB will help us win games. The O line actually blocking will help us win games.

[Atlanta Dan]

Originally Posted by Preacher

Yes.. we faced the team FIRST IN PASS DEFENSE... and put up 4 TD's THROUGH THE AIR... How can we really argue with that?

Our problem was that the defense was not able to get off the field on 3rd downs. That one issue alone changed the face of the game.

And going back to a run first offense is the WORST THING WE COULD EVER DO. Show me ONE... just ONE of Cowher's teams that would have been able to pick up 2 touchdowns in the fourth quarter and put us in the position to tie/win?

In that run first team, we would have been lucky to get 7 points in the fourth quarter. Going back to the past will not give us hope in the future. Rolling our defense up onto the line and bumping the receivers coming off the line will help us win games. The defense getting pressure on the QB will help us win games. The O line actually blocking will help us win games.

So you liked the first half game plan of 12 runs, 21 passes (2 INTs and a sack/fumble return for a TD), and 7 points? If anyone has as bad a run defense as Denver it is Cincy - should they be pass happy next Sunday too?

IMO nobody is saying the Steelers go back to a 65/35 run/pass split like 2004 but going pass happy gives the D less rest.

Ben threw 35 passes last night against the worst run defense in the league (which might explain why teams do not waste time passing against Denver) - when he throws over 25 the Steelers usually lose

Bottom line is Steelers were 14 points down and lost to a team San Diego smacked - not a good thing

NM

[Preacher]

Originally Posted by Atlanta Dan

So you liked the first half game plan of 12 runs, 21 passes (2 INTs and a sack/fumble return for a TD), and 7 points? If anyone has as bad a run defense as Denver it is Cincy - should they be pass happy next Sunday too?

IMO nobody is saying the Steelers go back to a 65/35 run/pass split like 2004 but going pass happy gives the D less rest.

Ben threw 35 passes last night - when he throws over 25 the Steelers usually lose

NM

That stat is meaningless as a pointer to cause or effect.

Why do we lose? Is it because Ben throws the ball? Or is it because our defense is so bad during those games that Ben HAS to throw the ball that many times to keep us in the game? I don't by the stat as a pointer to passing as bad.

Furthermore, Ben had 1 interception that was his fault. Ward was at fault for the second interception. If you have both hands on the ball, your at fault of the ball gets through your hands. Period.

Ben should have protected the ball better on the fumble. But running the ball doesn't guarantee that there won't be a fumble.

And on that Time of possession thing..... here are the stats...

Possession31:3528:25

Thats 31:35 FOR THE STEELERS....

So if our Defense can't play LESS then half a game... We have serious troubles.

No, Passing the ball is not why we lost... it IS the reason why we were within a minute and a quarter of tying the game however.

[Mosca]

Ineffectiveness at establishing a deep threat hurts the Steelers running game, because opposing teams can fill the box. If we can strike for 6 within 15 seconds, then the long ball must be always guarded against, opening up the run.

Cause? Effect? In football, there are only interlocking pieces. The more things you can do, the better you can do all of them. When we started hitting the middle routes well in the second half, Parker broke off some nice gains. By then we needed our points quickly. But the threat of either made both work.

It's not the failure of the game plan; it's the failure to EXECUTE the game plan that hurts. We need a credible deep threat.

[Big D]

Originally Posted by Preacher

Yes.. we faced the team FIRST IN PASS DEFENSE... and put up 4 TD's THROUGH THE AIR... How can we really argue with that?

Our problem was that the defense was not able to get off the field on 3rd downs. That one issue alone changed the face of the game.

And going back to a run first offense is the WORST THING WE COULD EVER DO. Show me ONE... just ONE of Cowher's teams that would have been able to pick up 2 touchdowns in the fourth quarter and put us in the position to tie/win?

In that run first team, we would have been lucky to get 7 points in the fourth quarter. Going back to the past will not give us hope in the future. Rolling our defense up onto the line and bumping the receivers coming off the line will help us win games. The defense getting pressure on the QB will help us win games. The O line actually blocking will help us win games.

and you didnt pull your hair out after bens three first half turnovers? You face the 32nd ranked run defense. How about pound the football.

[Atlanta Dan]

Originally Posted by Preacher

That stat is meaningless as a pointer to cause or effect.

Why do we lose? Is it because Ben throws the ball? Or is it because our defense is so bad during those games that Ben HAS to throw the ball that many times to keep us in the game? I don't by the stat as a pointer to passing as bad.

Furthermore, Ben had 1 interception that was his fault. Ward was at fault for the second interception. If you have both hands on the ball, your at fault of the ball gets through your hands. Period.

Ben should have protected the ball better on the fumble. But running the ball doesn't guarantee that there won't be a fumble.

And on that Time of possession thing..... here are the stats...



Thats 31:35 FOR THE STEELERS....

So if our Defense can't play LESS then half a game... We have serious troubles.

No, Passing the ball is not why we lost... it IS the reason why we were within a minute and a quarter of tying the game however.

Two can play the circular logic game

I agree passing brought the Steelers back last night (when you are 14 points down in the 4th quarter you do not have many other options) but not balancing the run and the pass is what botched the first half and got them down in the first place. Tomlin apparently thought so too if his comments about needing to run more to Andrea Kramer at the half are accurate and if he had any input into the Steelers calling 5 runs out of 6 plays to start the second half after Foote's interception)

And as far as interceptions being someone's "fault" I am not blaming Ben - throwing as much as Arians called last night is going to set up more miscues when it was not necessary to do so

The first half was Bruce Arians being too clever for his own good and it blew up on him - I do not think he has yet found his play calling rhythm (as Madden observed in the first half last night about the Steelers seeming disjointed)