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Old 10-22-2007, 09:17 PM   #31
tony hipchest
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Default Re: The non-existent "vertical game"

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Originally Posted by revefsreleets View Post

I was disappointed with some of the playaction calls, too. Why run playaction fakes to Willie in obvious passing situations when they never hand the ball to him from the same formations in possible running situations? Why not just give him the ball? And draw plays CAN be called in situations other than 3rd and long.

.
there was an excellent endzone shot i saw of 1 of these "play actions". the supposed hand off sucked as did bens non convincing pump fake downfield before he dumped it off to willie. the play simply wasnt sold. it looked like how they would go through the motions in practice.

if your play action is telographed it defeats the purpose. on the flipside, the red zone play action with davenport seems to work great.

another problem with our play action is it takes forever to develop. alot of bens deep shot interceptions would simply be overthrows, if they didnt take so long to develop.

the worst part of the play action is it works great against 7 defenders in the box, but if you have 8-9 defenders in the box, you have that many more angry people to get after the qb (hence our constant pass protection breakdowns)

this isnt kordell running play action with jerome any more. those plays need to be scrapped if theyre still in the book. kinda seems like they are.
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Old 10-22-2007, 09:18 PM   #32
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Default Re: The non-existent "vertical game"

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I agree on the draft... I actually think this may be the one time we need to pick up a WR in FA. Someone who is proven and can get the job done on deep routes.
don't think that guy will be available next season.....

Bernard Berrian, UFA, Chicago Bears
Patrick Crayton, UFA, Dallas Cowboys
Bryant Johnson, UFA, Arizona Cardinals
Drew Carter, UFA, Carolina Panthers
Antonio Chatman UFA Cincinnati Bengals
Keary Colbert UFA Carolina Panthers
Terrance Copper UFA New Orleans Saints
Andre' Davis UFA Houston Texans
Malcom Floyd RFA San Diego Chargers
Doug Gabriel UFA Oakland Raiders
Justin Gage UFA Tennessee Titans
D.J. Hackett UFA Seattle Seahawks
Az-Zahir Hakim UFA Miami Dolphins
Taylor Jacobs UFA Washington Redskins
Jerome Mathis RFA Houston Texans
Samie Parker UFA Kansas City Chiefs
David Patten UFA New Orleans Saints
Marcus Robinson UFA Detroit Lions
Brandon Stokley UFA Denver Broncos

http://www.footballsfuture.com/2008/...eagentsWR.html
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Old 10-22-2007, 09:27 PM   #33
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Default Re: The non-existent "vertical game"

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Originally Posted by tony hipchest View Post
there was an excellent endzone shot i saw of 1 of these "play actions". the supposed hand off sucked as did bens non convincing pump fake downfield before he dumped it off to willie. the play simply wasnt sold. it looked like how they would go through the motions in practice.

if your play action is telographed it defeats the purpose. on the flipside, the red zone play action with davenport seems to work great.

another problem with our play action is it takes forever to develop. alot of bens deep shot interceptions would simply be overthrows, if they didnt take so long to develop.

the worst part of the play action is it works great against 7 defenders in the box, but if you have 8-9 defenders in the box, you have that many more angry people to get after the qb (hence our constant pass protection breakdowns)

this isnt kordell running play action with jerome any more. those plays need to be scrapped if theyre still in the book. kinda seems like they are.
So where do we go from here?

The day after an unexpected loss results in lot of criticism, but this whole season suddenly is up for grabs if the Steelers lose in Cincy.

Willie P. and Heath Miller are coming up huge (and Ben had an excellent second half) but the execution on offense and defense was off last night.

What are your thoughts as to getting pressure and pressuring defenses?
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Old 10-22-2007, 09:35 PM   #34
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Default Re: The non-existent "vertical game"

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wow....i can't believe what i'm reading. this is the EXACT opposite of the arizona complaints from here. tomlin was called a cowher clone , predictable, stubborn. and why? because he wouldn't abandon an ineffective run game. its not like they didn't run the ball. parker had 21 carries for 93 yds. here's every carry parker had...

thats 21 carries....11 were for 1 yd or less.....51 of the 93 yds came on 2 runs leaving42 yds on 19 carries,for an average or 2.2 yds per carry. very similiar to the arizona game. the game that everyone bitched about NOT throwing more !!!
Thank you!

In this day and age, we need to be able to throw as well as run.

And I STILL am not sure how we can score 4 TD's through the air, yet have the reason we lose be that we were passing the ball.

The problem, people... was DEFENSE. Our O line didn't help however. But first and foremost... DEFENSE.
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Old 10-22-2007, 09:40 PM   #35
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Default Re: The non-existent "vertical game"

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Thank you!

In this day and age, we need to be able to throw as well as run.

And I STILL am not sure how we can score 4 TD's through the air, yet have the reason we lose be that we were passing the ball.

The problem, people... was DEFENSE. Our O line didn't help however. But first and foremost... DEFENSE.
yep.....minus the 1 pick....ben had a descent day....24 - 35 ..290 yds...4tds....17 first downs passing

not bad considering the pass protection was horrible.
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Old 10-22-2007, 10:27 PM   #36
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Default Re: The non-existent "vertical game"

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So where do we go from here?

The day after an unexpected loss results in lot of criticism, but this whole season suddenly is up for grabs if the Steelers lose in Cincy.

Willie P. and Heath Miller are coming up huge (and Ben had an excellent second half) but the execution on offense and defense was off last night.

What are your thoughts as to getting pressure and pressuring defenses?
1. dont let the team panic or question themselves.

2. time for an emotional game. scrap the businessman like approach and winning professionally. the steelers need to approach the bengals like theyre pissed and wanna whip some ass and bury it when theyre done.

3. run willie. replace a few of the play action plays with 3-5 step drops (last play of the season last year- 10 yd pass to santonio going for 60+ and a td).

4. if there are any scheming "aces in the hole", or if we are still just playing vanilla due to weaker competition, its time to unleash the dogs.

5. never use ben as a media tool. his poker face was horrible as he tried to convince the media all the throwing he would get in would be during pre game practice and warm ups. i didnt buy it, and neither did the broncos.

6. the no huddle/spread em out offense should be used as a punch to the jaw, not an attempt to get off the mat.

as opposed to last seasons lacidaisical coaching approach, i think this years staff has pressed (along with the players) and possibly over thought itself or allowed the team to become complacent for 2 of 6 games. i'll take it, but i'll expect growth and improvement.

i really wanna see a bit more defensive emotion other than polamalu tackling cutler by his head.
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Old 10-23-2007, 01:42 AM   #37
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Default Re: The non-existent "vertical game"

I agree with a lot of the things that have been pointed out in this thread, good observations by many of you.

#1. I think that Arians attempts to confuse the defense is often times confusing to his own offensive players. Some of his packages, and the plays that he calls from the packages, are totally confusing to everyone involved except the defense. I've seen too many packages with a variety of personnel changes. There's just no way that the Steelers have had sufficient practice time with these multitude of packages.

#2. Why do the Steelers run so much from a VERY-INEFFECTIVE Singleback formation? Man, are they missing the obvious here? Runs from this formation are consistently STUFFED. Why do they insist on running into this brick wall time and time again. Give Willie Parker a FULLBACK, other than Davis, to lead block for him. Last nights game showed Davis lead blocking, or attempting to lead block, and time after time you saw his assigned defender making the tackle on Parker. LEAD BLOCK WITH KRIEDER PLEASE!
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Old 10-23-2007, 01:57 AM   #38
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Default Re: The non-existent "vertical game"

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I agree with a lot of the things that have been pointed out in this thread, good observations by many of you.

#1. I think that Arians attempts to confuse the defense is often times confusing to his own offensive players. Some of his packages, and the plays that he calls from the packages, are totally confusing to everyone involved except the defense. I've seen too many packages with a variety of personnel changes. There's just no way that the Steelers have had sufficient practice time with these multitude of packages.

#2. Why do the Steelers run so much from a VERY-INEFFECTIVE Singleback formation? Man, are they missing the obvious here? Runs from this formation are consistently STUFFED. Why do they insist on running into this brick wall time and time again. Give Willie Parker a FULLBACK, other than Davis, to lead block for him. Last nights game showed Davis lead blocking, or attempting to lead block, and time after time you saw his assigned defender making the tackle on Parker. LEAD BLOCK WITH KRIEDER PLEASE!
we ran to the left way too much also. its either up the middle or to the left. mix it up just a bit more. one of parker's long runs was to the right. i think it was more of a counter play. but you gotta keep the defense guessing. when the defense overloads on one side, audible to the opposite side sometimes.. parker has the speed to get around the edge and outrun everyone lined up on the other side of the field.
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Old 10-23-2007, 04:01 AM   #39
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Default Re: The non-existent "vertical game"

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The Steelers definitely have the threat to strike from anywhere on the field. It just doesn't work too well when the OL doesn't give the QB enough time to throw the deep ball accurately.
Agreed if you ain't got time to throw it then it ain't going to work.
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Old 10-23-2007, 05:11 AM   #40
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Default Re: The non-existent "vertical game"

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Is it me, or is that "stretching the field" idea not working out so well for us? I understand that it's not a high percentage play. However, it looks like either our timing or our accuracy on the deep pass play isn't what it is for the teams that have TRUE deep threats.

If Roethlisberger is going to be compared favorably to the best, to Brady, P Manning, Farve, and Palmer, and if the Steelers are going to be considered among the elite, I think that it has to be credible that the team can strike long from anywhere, and at any time; and I really don't think the Steelers have that threat.

Anyone else?
the vertical game is mostly BR's fault. he has yet to learn how to throw the long ball. it's generally a hanging short pass. he did this in college too. his mechanics are also poor when throwing long. he tends to lean back rather than follow through.

most of BR's plays come on broken school yard plays. he needs to read the WRs quicker and get rid of ball sooner.
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