Loopholes let gun smuggling to Mexico flourish

[tony hipchest]

Originally Posted by Preacher

Which is why I go back to exempting the military from posse-comitatus within a certain mileage of the border.. say, 5 miles of any US, Mexican border. Let the Spec. Forces do some "training" there.

After all, Force Recon, Green Beret's, Navy Seals, and the Air force's SOFs need to keep themselves up to date in live fire situations don't they?

im not exactly sure what youre talking about preacher. not to be flip, but have you ever been to el-paso/juarez? imagine a city of about 2 mil. divided in half by a 15 foot river. maybe st. paul and minneapolis

are you suggesting a 10 mile stretch of city (including downtown) running 5 miles deep be turned into a militarized zone for "testing"? the same can be said for san diego/tuijana.

i just went to the NCAA sun bowl in december. it is literally a quarter mile from the poorest region in juarez which happens to be about the poorest region in all of mexico. i looked ath the shantytown and took it in as i was about to watch my pitt panthers play and drink 8 dollar beers.

you do know that fort bliss is probably within 5 miles of juarez? (think patriot missle batteries)

the entire base is being torn down and a completely new one built (at the cost of 2-3 bil)-

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcont...o.3acac1e.html

The base, a 1.12-million-acre spread that's larger than Rhode Island and abuts White Sands in New Mexico, will be the nation's fourth-largest Army installation in population by 2013, only slightly smaller than Fort Hood.

And the area will also benefit from local troops returning home from Iraq, including the recent homecoming of the 4th Brigade Combat Team, 1st Cavalry Division.

the population going from about 20,000 to 90,000 including spouses and children. this expansion has nothing to do with juarez (although im sure it will act as a deterrent).

still, the base is there to conduct army busines, not INS, dept of homeland security, or boarder patrol business. and i still cant see turning downtown elpaso into a battle zone.

[Dino 6 Rings]

Originally Posted by tony hipchest

i am not a fan of the lack of reading comprehension and people being driven blind by radical propoganda and rhetoric.

lets try this again...

In 2007-2008, according to ATF Special Agent William Newell, Mexico submitted 11,000 guns to the ATF for tracing. Close to 6,000 were successfully traced — and of those, 90 percent — 5,114 to be exact, according to testimony in Congress by William Hoover — were found to have come from the U.S.

But in those same two years, according to the Mexican government, 29,000 guns were recovered at crime scenes.

In other words, 68 percent of the guns that were recovered were never submitted for tracing. And when you weed out the roughly 6,000 guns that could not be traced from the remaining 32 percent, it means 83 percent of the guns found at crime scenes in Mexico could not be traced to the U.S.

[tony hipchest]

Originally Posted by Dino 6 Rings

In 2007-2008, according to ATF Special Agent William Newell, Mexico submitted 11,000 guns to the ATF for tracing. Close to 6,000 were successfully traced — and of those, 90 percent — 5,114 to be exact, according to testimony in Congress by William Hoover — were found to have come from the U.S.

But in those same two years, according to the Mexican government, 29,000 guns were recovered at crime scenes.

In other words, 68 percent of the guns that were recovered were never submitted for tracing. And when you weed out the roughly 6,000 guns that could not be traced from the remaining 32 percent, it means 83 percent of the guns found at crime scenes in Mexico could not be traced to the U.S.

this proves absolutey nothing pertaining to the point or article, other than your reading comprehension is lacking or you are hell bent on muddying the FACTS and offer up a diversion.

we will try this again... FACT IS-

Federal agents say about 90 percent of the 12,000 pistols and rifles the Mexican authorities recovered from drug dealers last year

were talking about drug dealers and cartel raids. this isnt about random street crime where a kid robs the corner store for 500 pesos or a man kills someone after a ballroom brawl or a woman shoots her cheating husband. this article is about the INFLUX of guns travelling across the boarder as if its an epidemic.

a trend... a "pattern" has developped.

A review of cases over the last two years show a pattern: the drug cartels hire people in need of cash with no criminal records to buy guns from legal sources

In 2008, the Mexican government seized more than 20,000 weapons from suspected drug dealers. Since Congress lifted the ban on assault rifles in 2004, more and more of the weapons recovered in Mexico have been military-style rifles like the AK-47s or the AR-15, the authorities in both countries say.

Some local law enforcement officials complain that the A.T.F., which has about 2,500 special agents watching 78,000 gun dealers nationwide, is overwhelmed.

anyways good job arguing against the FACTS that the federal agents and ATF are presenting in this article unless youre calling my source who is also your source a liar.

federal agent research and tracking > mexican govt. supplied data. im not saying its wrong just that youre confusing terroristic mexican cartels with the common criminal. apples and oranges. this isnt "colors" or "boys in da hood" style steet crimes and turf wars. LA crips and bloods are childs play compared to whats going on down there and are really the donkeys and worker bee's for these cartels.

hell mexico has just about put all the biker gangs out of business of manufacturing meth, and nobody coulda forseen that happening.

[tony hipchest]

http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2...xicoguns_N.htm

MEXICO CITY — There is one gun store in Mexico. Only one. And not just anybody can shop here.
The "Directorate for Arms and Munitions Sales," as the store is called, is run by the Mexican army and occupies two rooms in an olive-green, heavily guarded building near the army's headquarters.

Prospective customers need a permit from the army that can take months to get. And once they buy a gun, there are reams of rules: how much ammunition they can buy each month; where they can take the gun; who they can sell it to.

To some shoppers, the irony is clear: Mexico has some of the toughest gun-control laws in the world, yet the country's drug cartels are armed to the teeth with illegal weapons that are smuggled over the border from the United States.

"I would dare say that Mexico has some of the strictest regulations about gun ownership in all the world, and we're right next to a country ... that has some of the easiest ones," said Lt. Col. Raúl Manzano Vélez, director of the military's civilian gun sales. "That creates a huge vacuum between the countries and feeds weapons trafficking."

[MACH1]

So your saying since Mexico can't police their own country, drug cartels or not. We as Americans should lose our right to own firearms because of what another country can't do?

"I would dare say that Mexico has some of the strictest regulations about gun ownership in all the world, and we're right next to a country ... that has some of the easiest ones," said Lt. Col. Raúl Manzano Vélez, director of the military's civilian gun sales. "That creates a huge vacuum between the countries and feeds weapons trafficking."

Seems that gun control is working out real well for them. Now who in mexico has all the firearms? The law abiding citizen or the criminals?

[tony hipchest]

We as Americans should lose our right to own firearms

who said this? its just panic and fear mongering and i most certainly didnt say or imply it.

im saying i recognize there is a huge problem and the guns rights lovers are completely oblivious to it or simply dont give a shit.

serious questions here...

what are your thoughts of americans selling military style weaponry to terrorist?

is a terrorist only bad if they kill americans or is terrorism bad across the board?

what happened to the global war on terror?

[MACH1]

Originally Posted by tony hipchest

who said this? its just panic and fear mongering and i most certainly didnt say or imply it.

im saying i recognize there is a huge problem and the guns rights lovers are completely oblivious to it or simply dont give a shit.

serious questions here...

what are your thoughts of americans selling military style weaponry to terrorist?

is a terrorist only bad if they kill americans or is terrorism bad across the board?

what happened to the global war on terror?

I'm not trying to fear monger, just a question on where you stood. I could have worded it better.

A terrorist is a terrorist no matter who they try to kill!

A military STYLE weapon is just that, style, not the total functionality of a military firearm(lookalikes or not fully automatic). And I seriously doubt a foreign terrorist is going to walk into the local gun shop and fill out all the paper work and sit back and wait for a background check. Homegrown nut jobs are a different story. But at this point its their right to own a gun just as much as it is ours.

[tony hipchest]

Originally Posted by MACH1

I'm not trying to fear monger, just a question on where you stood. I could have worded it better.

A terrorist is a terrorist no matter who they try to kill!

A military STYLE weapon is just that, style, not the total functionality of a military firearm(lookalikes or not fully automatic). And I seriously doubt a foreign terrorist is going to walk into the local gun shop and fill out all the paper work and sit back and wait for a background check. Homegrown nut jobs are a different story. But at this point its their right to own a gun just as much as it is ours.

no im talking about the glenn beck types and nra groups that are painting the doomsday picture that obama is going to take away everyones guns. The cartels got hundereds of millions to spend. theyre hiring americans to buy the guns for them.

this is whats scary-

Noting there are about 1,500 licensed gun dealers in the Houston area, he added: “You can come to Houston and go to a different gun store every day for several months and never alert any one.”

The federal system for tracking gun sales, crafted over the years to avoid infringements on Second Amendment rights, makes it difficult to quickly spot suspicious trends and to identify people buying for smugglers, law enforcement officials say.

As a result, in some states along the Southwest border where firearms are lightly regulated, gun smugglers can evade detection for months or years. In Texas, New Mexico and Arizona, dealers can sell an unlimited number of rifles to anyone with a driver’s license and a clean criminal record without reporting the sales to the government.

i think its time the govt know who these guns are being sold to.

as for the military style weapons. they are military weapons, designed for the military. i mean all you have to do to turn a semi, back to fully auto is take it to a machine shop and have them file down the pin, right? thats whats going on in mexico.

so what would you think of all guns manufactured in the US being fitted with a trackable microchip? I mean the law abiding citezen wouldnt have anything to worry about, right? if you buy and register a gun, the govt already knows you have a gun at your location.

[Dino 6 Rings]

AK47s are not manufactured in the United States. They are made in China and Russia. And the AR-15s are sold directly to the Mexican Government.

What your argument insinuates is that there are truck loads of guns, being run across the border into Mexico, which are bought at Local Gun shops and Gun Shows legally and then sold on the black market to drug cartels.

Does that happen? Sure it does, does it happen at the Volume you suggest?

No.

The majority of guns come in from the Ocean, right into Mexican Ports, and are from other countries that don't care if they arm Mexican Gangs because in the long run, they turn those guns on each other and eventually on Americans.

[Dino 6 Rings]

Originally Posted by tony hipchest

no im talking about the glenn beck types and nra groups that are painting the doomsday picture that obama is going to take away everyones guns. The cartels got hundereds of millions to spend. theyre hiring americans to buy the guns for them.

And here we have our difference of opinion. You suggest that the NRA and Beck and groups like that are painting a Doomsday Picture about Obama taking guns away, while you paint a Doomsday Picture of the US Guns in Mexico.