Sikhs fight Army over bans on turbans, uncut hair

[SteelersMongol]

I'm not here 2 argue or start another endless dispute. But U guys kept calling em with the names like "towel heads" or "turban heads" so I couldn't help but 2 try 2 reply. These guys R totally different than typical Muslim fundamentalists. It's like calling the Jews Muslims. As far as I learned they're very brave & honorary men. They make good soldiers historically.

My take is Y can't the US military make exceptions 4 em. I understand how these men R torn between their faith & wanting 2 serve the military. I'm sure U guys can say there R at least hundreds of Muslim men serving in the US military without a trouble. Muslims can go without turbans but these guys can't. I took out some paragraphs from the wiki on the bottom, so that U guys can C.

I also hear some of U guys don't like these minority demands that make U change rules. If U look at it closely isn't that similar 2 family like situation? I mean the couples are used to some ways of lifestyle, until the kids starting show up. The kids don't ask U 2 change the whole thing 4 em, only a few rules, & same as these minority groups who R asking from the government. They're only asking U 2 make small changes 4 em. After all pretty much everything was set up before these minorities were accepted as equals. (Please note that I'm not bashing the US government, since it's pretty much the same in many other countries!)

The Five Ks, or panj kakaar/kakke, are five articles of faith that all baptized Sikhs are required to wear at all times, as commanded by the tenth Sikh Guru, who so ordered on the day of Baisakhi Amrit Sanskar in 1699. The symbols are worn for identification and representation of the ideals of Sikhism, such as honesty, equality, fidelity, meditating on God, and never bowing to tyranny. Kesh or uncut hair is one of the five symbols.

Generally Sikhism has had amicable relations with other religions. However, during the Islamic conquest of India (1556–1707), prominent Sikh Gurus were martyred by the ruling Mughals for opposing the Mughal's persecution of non-Islamic religious communities. Subsequently, Sikhism militarized to oppose Islamic hegemony. The emergence of the Sikh Empire under reign of the Maharajah Ranjit Singh was characterized by religious tolerance and pluralism with Christians, Muslims and Hindus in positions of power.

Sikhs make up 10–15% of all ranks in the Indian Army and 20% of its officers, whilst Sikhs only forming 1.87% of the Indian population, which makes them over 10 times more likely to be a soldier and officer in the Indian Army than the average Indian. The Sikh Regiment is one of the highest decorated regiment of the Indian Army.

By the advent of World War I, Sikhs in the British Indian Army totaled over 100,000; i.e. 20% of the British Indian Army. In the years to 1945, 14 Victoria Crosses were awarded to the Sikhs, a per capita record given the size of the Sikh Regiments. In 2002, the names of all Sikh VC and George Cross winners were commemorated by being inscribed on the pavilion monument of the Memorial Gates on Constitution Hill next to Buckingham palace, London.

During the First World War, Sikh battalions fought in Egypt, Palestine, Mesopotamia, Gallipoli and France. Six battalions of the Sikh Regiment were raised in the World War II, and served at El Alamein and in Burma, Italy and Iraq, winning 27 battle honours.

[SteelersMongol]

Oh and also these 2 paragraphs.

"In the last two world wars 83,005 turban wearing Sikh soldiers were killed and 109,045 were wounded. They all died or were wounded for the freedom of Britain and the world, and during shell fire, with no other protection but the turban, the symbol of their faith."
General Sir Frank Messervy

The Battle of Saragarhi

The Battle of Saragarhi is considered one of the greatest stories of collective bravery in human history. The contingent of twenty-one soldiers from the 36th Sikhs was led by Havildar Ishar Singh, and held off an Afghan attack of 10,000 men for several hours. All 21 Sikh soldiers chose to fight to the death instead of surrendering. In recognition of their supreme sacrifice, the British Parliament rose to pay them respect, and each one of them was awarded the Indian Order of Merit (equivalent to the Victoria Cross). The battle has been compared to the Battle of Thermopylae, where a small Greek force faced a large Persian army of Xerxes (480 BC).

I know U guys would love 2 have these guys in your ranks.

[steelwall]

Originally Posted by xfl2001fan

It won't be dishonorable discharge...the worst it will likely be is a General Discharge under other-than-honorable conditions. Again, that's the worst it will be.

I don't know which recruiter lied to them and said it wouldn't be an issue...that's just straight up BS. Charge them for their schooling for breech of contract and move on.

They said the recruiter lied to them how do we know that for sure?

[Preacher]

Originally Posted by steelwall

They said the recruiter lied to them how do we know that for sure?

Honestly, the recruiters need to be reigned in. Some of the idiocy the recruiters pull is downright dishonorable. I was thinking about going in the army as a chaplain. I had one outright lie to me about the process (chaplains DONT go through basic training . . . They Don't even GO to basic... they go to a specialized officer training program for chaplains).

http://www.goarmy.com/chaplain/chapl...idate_prog.jsp

This idiot was trying to get me to go right into basic. If ANY recruiter promises you something, GET IT IN WRITING.

If these guys were promised that... and they can prove it. Then it isn't their problem... IT IS THE RECRUITERS FAULT.

[SteelersinCA]

Cut your hair and shave or pay back the country for your school loans.

[steelwall]

Originally Posted by Preacher

Honestly, the recruiters need to be reigned in. Some of the idiocy the recruiters pull is downright dishonorable. I was thinking about going in the army as a chaplain. I had one outright lie to me about the process (chaplains DONT go through basic training . . . They Don't even GO to basic... they go to a specialized officer training program for chaplains).

http://www.goarmy.com/chaplain/chapl...idate_prog.jsp

This idiot was trying to get me to go right into basic. If ANY recruiter promises you something, GET IT IN WRITING.

If these guys were promised that... and they can prove it. Then it isn't their problem... IT IS THE RECRUITERS FAULT.

Sure some lie..... I guess.... and they don't know all the answers but I know they act like they do. I'm not going to jump on the recruiter on this one even if he did lie, because if this was that important to them they should have done more research on their own, I guess the way you found out for yourself you would have to go to basic.

The recruiter I had pulled no punches he was honest and upfront about everything I asked.

[Preacher]

The guy I was talking to straight up told me that I would go through basic.

Fact is, I knew I didn't have to as a chaplain. Of course, I mentioned my fear of heights and he said, "we have a program to help you get over that." I laughed right in his face and said, "yeah, the program is,
'get your blankety blank blank up the blanking blank and do what we blanking tell you'."

Yes, I actually said the words blank.

I think he knew then that I wasn't falling for it.

[steelwall]

Originally Posted by SteelersMongol

Oh and also these 2 paragraphs.





I know U guys would love 2 have these guys in your ranks.

I don't doubt the history of these people, and this certainly shouldn't be about race, but I doubt these guys would see much action being a dentist and a doctor. All the more reason for me to believe this whole thing was a sham on their part from the beginning.

[SteelersMongol]

Originally Posted by steelwall

I don't doubt the history of these people, and this certainly shouldn't be about race, but I doubt these guys would see much action being a dentist and a doctor. All the more reason for me to believe this whole thing was a sham on their part from the beginning.

What if the other Sikhs R not joining the US military because of this issue? Bend just a couple rules & U'll get bunch of guys that a born & raised in military ways.

"The British, as well as the Indians, are proud of the 36th Sikh Regiments. It is no exaggeration to record that the armies which possess the valiant Sikhs cannot face defeat in war"

- Parliament of the United Kingdom

"You are never disappointed when you are with the Sikhs. Those 21 soldiers all fought to the death. That bravery should be within all of us. Those soldiers were lauded in Britain and their pride went throughout the Indian Army. Inside every Sikh should be this pride and courage. The important thing is that you must not get too big-headed it is important to be humble in victory and to pay respect to the other side."

- Field Marshal William Joseph Slim, 1st Viscount Slim

[SteelersinCA]

Originally Posted by SteelersMongol

What if the other Sikhs R not joining the US military because of this issue? Bend just a couple rules & U'll get bunch of guys that a born & raised in military ways.

[/RIGHT]

I don't want a bunch of people just by bending the rules. Regiment is what makes the military work. Where do you stop bending rules?