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Old 05-25-2009, 05:13 PM   #21
tony hipchest
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Default Re: Why are there soo many people joining the Military?

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Originally Posted by Preacher View Post
True, but I think his point was not people stationed in Ohio but rather, those who were BORN and RAISED there who went off to be in the military.

.
well then, either you are way off the mark or he is.

Quote:
Today in the paper there was a pictorial list of all the area men and women who have been KIA in The Iraq and Afghan War. 70 individuals in all. But only 5 blacks. The population around here is on par with the country overall, about 12-13%, yet only 5 out of 70 (7%ish) KIA's from this area are black. It seems like we have a disproportionately white military.
i couldnt recall any military bases in the entire state of ohio so i consulted with dan (AKA google) and sure enough, dayton is home to wright-patterson AFB. that is it.

local papers always run lists of local military members who were killed or MIA (especially on memorial day). my paper does it. im sure yours does too.

again, 70 people killed from th akron area is FAR to small of a sample for him to draw the conclusion he came to.

while it may seem to him that we have a disproportianately whilte military, his reality ISNT every one elses.

theres TONS of research on the matter. this piece is just the tip of the iceberg.

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/m...8/ai_19657030/

i dont know what revs point is quotinc his local fishwrap but the conlusions he draws are really misinfomative.

Quote:
The United States armed services - army, navy, marines, air force - are together the most racially integrated mass organization in the world. No organization nearly as large, anywhere, has more harmonious (which is not to say perfect) race relations, and none has as many whites being supervised by blacks - as meaningful a proof of racial integration as one could ask for. These are not assertions but facts open to examination by anybody who may care to do so.

One measure of this truth is the number of young black men and women - several tens of thousands - who enter the armed services each year. Every year since the Vietnam War, around 20 percent of the first term enlistees entering the armed forces are black, well above the African-American fraction of the population (14 percent of the prime age group). Why? Because blacks see in the military services opportunities often unavailable to them in civilian America. African Americans see the armed services as practicing equal opportunity, and as having far higher percentages of black supervisors than those found in any other occupation. Moreover, blacks are not recruited or employed solely or even mainly in combat organizations. While African Americans are 30 percent of the army's enlisted force, they hold more than 30 percent of the non-combat specialties. The medical career field, for example, is disproportionately black. Blacks are thus not over-represented in the combat arms; about 20 percent of today's army recruits are black, but fewer than 10 percent of those enlistees destined for infantry training are black. Blacks, in other words, are not recruited solely as warriors and usually choose careers that have civilian transferability.(1)
For these reasons - career opportunities and equal opportunity - the re-enlistment rates for blacks are considerably higher than they are for whites; across the Defense Department, about 150 blacks re-enlist each year for 100 whites. Hence, while the army takes about 20-22 percent of its annual enlistees from the African-American community, the total army enlisted force is 30 percent black because blacks stay in the army longer than whites. Also, blacks are promoted to senior enlisted ranks, on a merit-only basis, in proportion to their representation in the service. This is to be expected because the army takes black and white recruits with similar aptitudes and education. More than 90 percent of today's recruits have high schools diplomas (a higher percentage of diploma holders than this age group in general), and more blacks than whites enter the service with diplomas. Thus, about 30 percent of the highest ranking enlisted personnel - E-9s or sergeants-major - are blacks, as are about 11 percent of the officer corps and 7 percent of the generals.

The other services have lower percentages of black officers, but all of them have senior enlisted black personnel in proportion to the African-American percentage of their force. Clearly, African Americans see benefits in military organizations that continually educate all personnel at all ranks on the need to operate in a bias-free atmosphere; that severely penalize those who cause racial friction; that bar promotions for officers and supervisory enlisted who do not maintain a healthy racial climate; that discharge all known active members of hate groups; that treat all people of the same rank equally in terms of pay, allowances, housing, and medical care, regardless of race; and that scrupulously study the results of promotion boards to ensure freedom from racial (or any kind of ethnic or religious) prejudice.

A Mixed History

Although the armed services were the first mass U.S. institutions truly to integrate racially, the services did not always practice equal opportunity. They usually reflected the biases of the greater American community, and there is much ugliness in the military record. How and why the services reached the point where they are today ahead of the rest of America may be instructive.

The military's progress in race relations has turned on three key factors: the essential demand for people to fill the ranks, the bonding that comes naturally to military members, and the nature of the mission of the armed forces. The charge of the military is to promote American national interests by being ready to defeat any foe that challenges them. The military calling, with its unique unlimited liability, requires each member to value people on the basis of their contribution to mission accomplishment, and to insist that the most be attained from everyone. It is not that military people are more enlightened than civilians on racial matters (or less so, incidentally), nor are they more benevolent than civilians (or less so), but they do concentrate very hard on their mission.

Even when the country practiced slavery, military service was seen as a haven for escaped slaves to obtain freedom or for free black men to better their lot in life. Given the strain of raising fighting men, blacks were often openly recruited into the military even in the eighteenth century. More than five thousand blacks fought as regulars in the Continental Army of Revolutionary War times, and the navy, although tiny in the eighteenth and nineteenth centuries, was never able to man its ships without black sailors. During the last thirty-five years of the nineteenth century, blacks made up a greater fraction of the U.S. Army than they did of the general population.
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Old 05-25-2009, 05:21 PM   #22
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Default Re: Why are there soo many people joining the Military?

while the numbers are still ppoportionately high or equal, its not all great news.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...062400372.html

Quote:
WASHINGTON -- The number of blacks joining the military has plunged by more than one-third since the Afghanistan and Iraq wars began. Other job prospects are soaring and relatives of potential recruits increasingly are discouraging them from joining the armed services.

According to data obtained by The Associated Press, the decline covers all four military services for active duty recruits. The drop is even more dramatic when National Guard and Reserve recruiting is included.

The findings reflect the growing unpopularity of the wars, particularly among family members and other adults who exert influence over high school and college students considering the military as a place to serve their country, further their education or build a career.

Walking past the Army recruiting station in downtown Washington, D.C., this past week, Sean Glover said he has done all he can to talk black relatives out of joining the military.

"I don't think it's a good time. I don't support the government's efforts here and abroad," said Glover, 36. "There's other ways you can pay for college. There's other ways you can get your life together. Joining the Army, the military, comes at a very high price."

The message comes as no surprise to the Pentagon. At the Defense Department, efforts are under way to increase the size of the Army and Marine Corps so the country can better wage what the military believes will be a long battle against terrorism.

"The global war on terror has taken its toll, no question," said Curt Gilroy, the Pentagon's director of accession policy, in an Associated Press interview.

Marine Commandant Gen. James T. Conway agreed that the bloodshed in Iraq _ where more than 3,540 U.S. troops have died _ is the biggest deterrent for prospective recruits.

"The daily death toll that comes out is, I think, causing people who are the influencers of young men and women in America to take a second look," he said. "So I think that's probably the single most dominant feature."

According to Pentagon data, there were nearly 51,500 new black recruits for active duty and reserves in 2001. That number fell to less than 32,000 in 2006, a 38 percent decline.

When only active duty troops are counted, the number of black recruits went from more than 31,000 in 2002 to about 23,600 in 2006, almost one-quarter fewer.

The decline is particularly stark for the Army. Blacks represented about 23 percent of the active Army's enlisted recruits in 2000, but 12.4 percent in 2006.
im sure this number has gone back up since published in 2007.

either way, im expecting to be told im wrong, or that dan fed me info. whatever. carry on.
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Old 05-25-2009, 05:30 PM   #23
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Default Re: Why are there soo many people joining the Military?

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No, Im going to Meridian.
Meridian? My condolences.
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Old 05-25-2009, 06:30 PM   #24
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Default Re: Why are there soo many people joining the Military?

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True, but I think his point was not people stationed in Ohio but rather, those who were BORN and RAISED there who went off to be in the military.
.
just curious preacher. when i speak of the local kids of ohio, how do you confuse that with me not speaking of those who were born and rased there to the point that you needed to use caps lock at me to try to emphasize that it is i who dont understand that which i am reading (no thanks for the clarification that wasnt needed.)?

was i not perfectly clear with my post or is there a certain republiclear i need to learn?

Quote:
i dont know if 70 local ohio kids out of the 4000+ KIA is a large enough sample size. maybe the local recruiters whos responsibility is the inner cities there just suck when it comes to convincing the poor blacks that the military provides a better option.
is this just an unspoken tactic you guys love to use?
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Old 05-25-2009, 06:49 PM   #25
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Default Re: Why are there soo many people joining the Military?



"I see Republican condescension...."

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Old 05-25-2009, 07:01 PM   #26
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Default Re: Why are there soo many people joining the Military?

that would be hilarious if used within the proper context.

im glad im not the only one who see's it (or are you going to attempt to re-clarify preacher and revs?)

just curious fansince...

do you believe revs claims that the military is disproportionaly majority white, and do you back preacher in believing the veracity a 70 out of 4000 sample pool?
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Old 05-25-2009, 07:10 PM   #27
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Default Re: Why are there soo many people joining the Military?

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that would be hilarious if used within the proper context.
Ah, so it's OK for you to be condescending. Got it. I just found it humorous that Preacher's post apparently ate at you for over an hour before you finally called it out for feeling it was condescending, when you've done the same thing to me several times lately.
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Old 05-25-2009, 07:18 PM   #28
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Default Re: Why are there soo many people joining the Military?

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Ah, so it's OK for you to be condescending. Got it. I just found it humorous that Preacher's post apparently ate at you for over an hour before you finally called it out for feeling it was condescending, when you've done the same thing to me several times lately.
nice deciphering. nothing condescending about it. i think he either completely misread, or is starting to use revs "i dont know what youre talking about" tactics. im giving him the benefit of the doubt and opportunity to clarify himself. i dont know what was eating at me. i went across the street for a brew and came back to see if there was a response. there wasnt.

as far as what ive done to you lately, i cant even recall responding to one of your posts in a couple of weeks.
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Old 05-25-2009, 09:02 PM   #29
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Default Re: Why are there soo many people joining the Military?

Actually, I was just conversating...

Seeing how this is yet ANOTHER thread that has descended into left vs. right politics... I guess I'll leave this one alone too.
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Old 05-25-2009, 09:11 PM   #30
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Default Re: Why are there soo many people joining the Military?

silence is golden i guess.

but thanks for the clarification of what you thought revs point was.

the rhetoric and propoganda plus those who support (regardless if its even in the ball park) it has gotten way beyond the point of absurd.
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