"all we would need to do is leave people alone"

[Vincent]

Originally Posted by ricardisimo

I don't think we would even need to be "nicer" to people. I think the libertarians are just as on the mark when they say that all we would need to do leave people alone.

P.S. - Is it just me, or is this thread way off target now?

I don't want to take the "Obama Administration Steers Lucrative No-Bid Contract for Afghan Work to Dem Donor" thread further off course, so I throw this out for discussion.

On a spectrum of "leave people alone" to "bomb them into submission" and all points in between, what is your solution to dealing with the islamic world and all its stripes? What should our role be in the islamic world? If you were to set an agenda for this situation, what would it be?

[MACH1]

I'm not the most pc person around. But if I had my way after 9/11, 9/12 would have look a little like this.

[7SteelGal43]

We shouldn't have a role in the Islamic world per se'. However, in the interest of protecting America, we should be taking out by any means necessary the TERRORIST EXTREMISTS among them, or any other group. I feel we should in all cases treat someone who means to bomb, attack, or kill by means of a terrorist action as an enemy combatant. Not as a a civilian. No miranda rights. No trial in a NYC courtroom. Period.

Gather intel wherever whenever and from whoever possible. Then take action to thwart further attacks.



LONG LIVE GITMO !



Oh, and as for "all we have to do is leave 'em alone".....yeah, what colors the sky in your world, ricardi ?!!

Originally Posted by Vincent

I don't want to take the "Obama Administration Steers Lucrative No-Bid Contract for Afghan Work to Dem Donor" thread further off course, so I throw this out for discussion.

On a spectrum of "leave people alone" to "bomb them into submission" and all points in between, what is your solution to dealing with the islamic world and all its stripes? What should our role be in the islamic world? If you were to set an agenda for this situation, what would it be?

I'm one that agrees with the quote you brought to the thread. We should have taken Switzerlands lead a long damn time ago and just stayed the hell out of other countries business. It's caused a lot more problems than it will ever be worth in the end.

As it stands now, this country is way too deep in the proverbial shit for there to be an easy solution to get out of it. There probably never will be an end to the vicious circle our government has created, at least not in our lifetime. The best I think we can hope for is stopping terrorists (the ones born outside of this country at least) before another 9/11 happens.

Ideally, what I would like to see is:
-Close up the borders and make it extremely difficult to gain citizenship. I have nothing against any nationality, but if you want a secure country you just don't let anyone in willy nilly.
-Mandatory military training. You want other countries to be scared? Arm and train everyone to protect the country.
-Do away with unnecessary gun laws. Of course we don't want felons running around with firearms, but good citizens should be aloud to protect themselves...from foreign and domestic threats. Watch the crime rate and terror attack rate drop way down.
-Have trade only agreements with other countries. We can have some of your stuff, you can have some of our stuff...but outside of that, you keep to yourself and we'll keep to ourselves.

None of this will ever happen of course, because like I said, this country has gone too far at this point...but that's what should have happened 100+ years ago.

[Vincent]

I've got a range of emotions somewhere between Mach 1 and Mom on this subject. On the one hand incinerating mecca and medina on 9/12 would have been the appropriate response to 9/11. On the other hand, I think I'm like most Americans in that we want to live peacefully and prosperously, and want the same for everyone else. Boiled down to usable terms, that means live and let live but don't @#$% with us. And I think that is our history.

We just wanted to live and prosper but George wouldn't have it so we had to fight. Same in 1812. The Civil War was an internal dispute. Spanish American, eh. Both World Wars we were drawn into. Korea and Viet Nam were containment of the commies. Gulf War I was the result of hussein invading Kuwait. Bosnia, while we had no business being there, was a NATO commitment. Gulf War II is integral to the war on terror. We don't have a history of starting @#$%. We finish it, then leave the theater in much better shape than we found it. And in the cases of all but Viet Nam and GWII we fought a conventional enemy that could be defeated and the landscape rebuilt.

Gen 3, 4, asymmetrical warfare, whatever you want to call it is different. Its like fighting cancer. You can cut out a tumor (Fallujah) but the cancer has already metastasized.

The real problem with the war on terror is that 10% of muslims are islamofascists and have no intention of ever letting this go. They transcend states. They are transparent in the communities they operate from, but are commanded by a relatively sophisticated but decidedly low tech central command structure. And they have sufficiently @#$%ed up public opinion that we can't take appropriate action to end this. Get a load of this - they can behead us, fly our airplanes into our buildings, bomb our embassies, blow up our trains, and commit all manner of unthinkable barbarity, but we aren't allowed to "offend" them.

How do you fight a war that your leadership won't recognize as the war it is? Ask any islamofascist "Are yinz at war with us?". What do you think the answer would be? Ask our "administration". "Oh, we are in an 'Overseas Contingency Operation'.". http://www.armyg1.army.mil/MilitaryP...el/PPG/PPG.pdf http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...032402818.html Again Those tools (the "administration", not the Army) are so oblivious to reality that they aren't aware our army isn't up to such nonsense. http://www.globalsecurity.org/milita...gao/d01198.pdf Or are they?

I will echo Mom's analysis.

Originally Posted by SteelCityMom

As it stands now, this country is way too deep in the proverbial shit for there to be an easy solution to get out of it. There probably never will be an end to the vicious circle our government has created, at least not in our lifetime. The best I think we can hope for is stopping terrorists (the ones born outside of this country at least) before another 9/11 happens.

And further agree that the Swiss model of defense is highly appropriate for these times. http://forums.steelersfever.com/show...14&postcount=1

Love that video Vincent...and to speak a little further on the matter of their national security - not only do they require military training and keeping civilians armed, they also have shelters built into the mountains with years and years of supplies ready to go (all provided by the government). Their highway medians are removable and their highways become emergency airstrips. It is also mandatory that all houses and apartment buildings have fallout shelters built on the property. Many of their bridges, roads, tunnels and railways are wired with explosives as well, but this is an old practice from WWII and the Cold War days (though IMO I see no reason to stop doing it).

They are a country that hasn't seen or been in war for over 100 years, yet they have the capacity to have a large, capable army ready in a very short amount of time. They are also very economically stable. Their country is like a blueprint for domestic success and stability.

[ricardisimo]

There's a simple solution, which is to listen to what a majority of our own people believe on this topic and others. Our propaganda tells us that we are a democracy, so this should be natural for us.

Among other things, a clear majority of U.S. citizens support the U.N. - and not the U.S. - taking the lead in peacekeeping and military intervention. A clear majority also support the ICC. I think we'd all be amazed to see just how well behaved our presidents and senators can be if they know they can hang for their actions.

[devilsdancefloor]

the warrior inside of me says KILL"EM ALL, but the little voice says waiiiiiit not all of these people are the bad guys. But once we find'em carpet bomb with fuel bombs. Plus let the military do their jobs keep washington out of it

[Leftoverhard]

I think we should bomb everyone until they agree with us and bow to our will. Everyone.

[Borski]

Originally Posted by Leftoverhard

I think we should bomb everyone until they agree with us and bow to our will. Everyone.

no reason why we shouldn't have conquered Canada and Mexico by now. Come on now! USA USA USA!