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Old 02-06-2010, 03:33 PM   #131
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Default Re: "all we would need to do is leave people alone"

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Most of those don't apply, and the rest are ancient history. Israel is 60 years old. The refugees are still alive.

Kind of to your point, the idea is the same as with Native Americans, etc.: eventually the Palestinians will all be dead, or at least vastly outnumbered and hopelessly isolated, and it will all be moot. There's no Right-of-Return for the dead.

I'm pretty sure that's the plan.
but the concept is still the same....we did this to your people, now we get that, because of it. never ending cycle...any (well a lot anyway) nation, people, state, can say they were occupied, had genocide practiced on them, treated poortly, etc. and ask for the "justice" of land, money, mineral rights, etc.
most of our discussion has been based on the Palestinian/Israeli conflict. i dont see anyway of making you see our side, or we seeing yours. at least as far as the totality of it.
i guess the basic argument (broken down) is "do you think that if the Palestinians were given the land they are seeking, would it end strife in the Middle East?"

i would say, most of us dont. for many reasons, all covered here. i wold guess you feel that it would. also covered here. im guessing here. unless this is just an argument for who has the "right" to do what to who in the name of "justice". then, well, it would be easier discussing if worm holes really exist.
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Old 02-06-2010, 03:38 PM   #132
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Default Re: "all we would need to do is leave people alone"

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How many times do I have to tell you people? Tralfamadore.


That's a seriously cool av too!
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Old 02-06-2010, 03:46 PM   #133
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Default Re: "all we would need to do is leave people alone"

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"do you think that if the Palestinians were given the land they are seeking, would it end strife in the Middle East?"
No.

Old saying - "Me and my brother are fighting our cousin. Me and my brother and our cousin are fighting our neighbor". Its in the DNA.

And there is nothing Israel could say, do, or give that would end it. The muslims won't let it go until Israel has vanished. Then they'll revert to the old saying.

It won't go that way though. The plains below Megiddo beckon.
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Old 02-06-2010, 04:03 PM   #134
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No.

Old saying - "Me and my brother are fighting our cousin. Me and my brother and our cousin are fighting our neighbor". Its in the DNA.

And there is nothing Israel could say, do, or give that would end it. The muslims won't let it go until Israel has vanished. Then they'll revert to the old saying.

It won't go that way though. The plains below Megiddo beckon.
and i completely agree....

Israel has made consessions, repeatedly, and been met with the same. most of the Arab states are in a constant state of war with Israel, and admitted as much. proxy wars are being fought....Israel has been attacked repeatedly by nation states, and proxy terrorist organizations. Arab states refuse to let in Palestinian refugees, which, to me negates, the "land for peace" argument. among other things. the Arab states use the Palestinian issue, and the people, as weapons to beat Isarel over the head with.
the problem rises out of the conceptualization over the Islam religion, as its viewed by a lot of people. a lot, meaning the 10-20 % that belive in the hardline stuff. which equates to quite a few nation states, and millions of people.
now....we get into why this is....many thoughts on that. but i dont want this to get into "whos religion is better" deal. the popular religion of this board, i would guess, is Christianity. now.....and i am a Christian, it has had its bloody past. but, at the present, and i emphasize the present, the religion has learned from its past mistakes and moved into the 21st century. hardliner "Islamists" have not. a lot of history has gone by, and i have no idea when this is going to happen...if ever. i hope so. but until then, what is to be done. our policy makers, it seems, have gone with the "force" idea. meaning, forcing a democracy into that part of the world. will this work? dont know. right thing to do. dont know? only realistic option at this point....i think so.
i think that if Israel, the U.S., and the "powers that be", really thought that giving the Palestinians a homeland....without giving over Jerusalem, then they would have by now. of course, now my head hurts.....
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Old 02-06-2010, 04:06 PM   #135
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Default Re: "all we would need to do is leave people alone"

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Would you feel better about them if they were to get up off of their lazy victim asses and organize themselves into both political and military groups actively seeking to retake the land that they feel was taken from them illegally?
Probably not. They'd just be whiny losers, I suppose. Unless they were fighting against the Russians, Chinese or another one of our ideological enemies... then they'd be "Freedom Fighters".
So, how do you feel about us living in the United States of America then? If you are so worried about other lands having lands so called "stolen" away, what's your opinion here? Oh, I can only imagine the response.
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Old 02-06-2010, 04:11 PM   #136
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So, how do you feel about us living in the United States of America then? If you are so worried about other lands having lands so called "stolen" away, what's your opinion here? Oh, I can only imagine the response.

you sure you really want to go here SC....lol
this will be fun.....i just have that feelin'

toyota!!!! well not so much these days, right?
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Old 02-06-2010, 04:51 PM   #137
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you sure you really want to go here SC....lol
this will be fun.....i just have that feelin'

toyota!!!! well not so much these days, right?
I was wondering the same thing after I hit submit reply. You're right, if anything, this will be fun
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Old 04-03-2010, 03:37 AM   #138
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Default Re: "all we would need to do is leave people alone"

Did I drop the ball on this thread?
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Old 04-03-2010, 08:14 AM   #139
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Default Re: "all we would need to do is leave people alone"

Sorry I missed this thread, but basically what the original post implies is the "Monroe Doctrine" or isolationism. This was fine for the US up until global communications and economy made it pretty difficult. The only nation I can think of that has successfully followed this path is Switzerland.

The problem here is that if you want to be a global leader, you are looked up to to help solve global issues. And, whether you personally agree with US foreign policy over the last 100 years or not, we have pretty much been the go to country in terms of helping the rest of the world....isolationism, even if it is specifically directed at a group, would fail in this modern era.
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