daisy cutters, the M.O.A.B., and our current "war"

[augustashark]

Originally Posted by 3 to be 4

Excellent, excellent post. I actually think it was me who said Reagan would have found a peice of Arab desert and dropped an H-Bomb on 9/12 as a warning. You are so right.
Even moreso because of the questionablr nature of this war, I admire so much the men and women who serve our country. They deserve all our praise, free education and free housing when they get back home for all they have done and all that they risk. You can love and support these people while not supporting the leaders who make such bonehead, or in some cases, immoral decisions. the govenment hides behind them. And it always disturbed me how George Bush seized on 9/11 to win re-election, as if supporting Kerry meant you "have forgotten 9/11". this was NY. Im sure a few Democrats were in those towers, George. Im sick of the black and white thinking on this. I fully supported this President when he stood up in Congress and said that any nation that harbored terrorists would be treated as terrorist nation. I thought he was serious. I supported the invasion of Afganistan. And then something happened. Bush went back on his word. He looked the other way when it came to Saudi Arabia, N.Korea, Iran, Syria etc etc. Why? He didnt close the borders. Why? He didnt protect the ports. why? So dont call it "Bush-bashing".
I just listed all the times i supported him. I didnt turn my back on him, he turned his back on me. And then he wins an election by using 9/11. And hiding behind "the troops" His policies are killing troops. So Iraq can have good schools.

By your post you supported GW once. I don't want to get into a big spat here, but you are a dem and no matter what GW does you are going to jump to dispute. It's your right to dispute anything that he does, but remember he did get re-elected.

[tony hipchest]

Originally Posted by augustashark

By your post you supported GW once. I don't want to get into a big spat here, but you are a dem and no matter what GW does you are going to jump to dispute. It's your right to dispute anything that he does, but remember he did get re-elected.

i think alot of people voted for bush to not do a disservice to our troops buy switching leaders at a time of war. this could present a sign of weakness to our enemys and dissention amongst our people. personally i figured bush got us into this, lets let him get us out of it according to his plan. btw, what was his plan to get us out of it? or is that a problem better solved by the next administration? if its a problem better left solved for the next administration maybe it wouldve been better to put them in place in 2004.

[augustashark]

What I think presents a sign of weakness is the media and the nay sayers that spout off day in and day out about how we are losing (the war) or that the troops don't want to be there! Your statement of "Bush got us into this, lets let him get us out" is off. As I remember more than 2/3 of the country supported the war in Iraq when it began! So I don't see it as Bush got us into this. Hell 90% or more of congress voted for the war! Are we to believe that all of them were tricked into voting. If we are, then we need a complete overhaul of our government! Republican and dems alike!

[tony hipchest]

Originally Posted by augustashark

What I think presents a sign of weakness is the media and the nay sayers that spout off day in and day out about how we are losing (the war) or that the troops don't want to be there! Your statement of "Bush got us into this, lets let him get us out" is off. As I remember more than 2/3 of the country supported the war in Iraq when it began! So I don't see it as Bush got us into this. Hell 90% or more of congress voted for the war! Are we to believe that all of them were tricked into voting. If we are, then we need a complete overhaul of our government! Republican and dems alike!

when the war began 2/3 of the people thought that there were wmd and the iraquis were our greatest threat

it is a true leaders duty to take responsibility for his initiative to get us into this war, not to pawn it off onto the voters and congress. that is what leaders do. i guess he can just sit back and rely on the voters and congress to get us out of it. not quite leadership imo though. im sure it will all be over and done with by the conclusion of next administrations term. how convinient

please, please, please, lets just not press on with HIS plan to send man to mars.

priorities.

[augustashark]

A true leader is someone that does not make decisions by what the polls say, i.e. Clinton!

You know, sometimes I think that no matter how hard I try to change minds about this war or GW in general, I get nowhere. The fact is this I believe in this war and in GW and you do not, but you know what, debate is always a good thing. As long as I respect you and your views (even though they differ) and you respect mine, then we can always have a foundation where we can debate and try to make this a better country!

[tony hipchest]

ok. do you believe in GW's plan to send man to mars?

do you believe in him declaring the war over 3 years ago practicly robbing our troops who go over and fight today of veteran status?

being that i started this thread singing the praises of our military and war machine and our air force being the most superior force in the world i cant see how it looks like im opposed to war. i believe in cars but i dont believe in drunk drivers who kill people. i believe in fighting a war but not if were gonna try to do it on horseback. i believe in a strategic plan where our soldiers arent turned into police officers. i believe gas should be about 90 cents a gallon. i believe in being prepared for future conflicts. i used to believe in war being good for the economy. not no more.

[augustashark]

Originally Posted by tony hipchest

ok. do you believe in GW's plan to send man to mars?

do you believe in him declaring the war over 3 years ago practicly robbing our troops who go over and fight today of veteran status?

being that i started this thread singing the praises of our military and war machine and our air force being the most superior force in the world i cant see how it looks like im opposed to war. i believe in cars but i dont believe in drunk drivers who kill people. i believe in fighting a war but not if were gonna try to do it on horseback. i believe in a strategic plan where our soldiers arent turned into police officers. i believe gas should be about 90 cents a gallon. i believe in being prepared for future conflicts. i used to believe in war being good for the economy. not no more.

Even thinking about going to mars is a mistake right now!

Are you not opposed to the war? If you are not, then my mistake.

Your cars example is alittle off! Listen Tony, it is very hard to have a strategic plan when your fighting people who don't care if they die or if anyone around them die! Our soldiers care more for the man next to them than they do about themselves, but they don't want to die either! Strapping explosives on your body and running into a group of people is not strategic. We still have soldiers around the world that are "police officers".

[3 to be 4]

Originally Posted by augustashark

By your post you supported GW once. I don't want to get into a big spat here, but you are a dem and no matter what GW does you are going to jump to dispute. It's your right to dispute anything that he does, but remember he did get re-elected.

that didnt even make sense. If I supported him once, where do you get that no matter what he does because hes a Republican im not going to support him? If I supported him before???
And as far as your comment "but remember, he did get re-elected"...............
So??????????? what does that have to do with anything? Oh, ok, he got re-elected, lets support everything he does now. Clinton got re-elected, should I have supported his getting BJ's from Monica???

[augustashark]

Originally Posted by 3 to be 4

that didnt even make sense. If I supported him once, where do you get that no matter what he does because hes a Republican im not going to support him? If I supported him before???
And as far as your comment "but remember, he did get re-elected"...............
So??????????? what does that have to do with anything? Oh, ok, he got re-elected, lets support everything he does now. Clinton got re-elected, should I have supported his getting BJ's from Monica???

You used the line in your post "I just listed all the times i've supported him", but in your post you only pointed out one time where you supported him! I don't think that is "all the times", you should have listed more then one time to support your line of "all the times"!

I'm not saying that because he got re-elected that you need to support everything he does. What I am saying is a whole lot of people out there do support him, hence him being re-elected!

[3 to be 4]

Originally Posted by augustashark

You used the line in your post "I just listed all the times i've supported him", but in your post you only pointed out one time where you supported him! I don't think that is "all the times", you should have listed more then one time to support your line of "all the times"!

I'm not saying that because he got re-elected that you need to support everything he does. What I am saying is a whole lot of people out there do support him, hence him being re-elected!

ok, a whole lot of people supported him. Again...So???. i cant be against the war then?

i supported the things he said he going to do after 9/11. I support his stance on abortion.
quite frankly i dont support much else because basically i think hes been a disaster as a President. His "economic policy", if he has one, sucks. And he has screwed us up with this war. But once again, why does this matter? If frickin FDR was the President and handled the war this way id feel the same. LBJ was a DEmocrat and he screwed up Vietnam. this isnt about party. Are you a REbublican? if so, i could you support him just because hes a REpublican. there are a lot of GOP toadies out there, like Rush, Hannity, and Laura Ingraham, who'll say his farts smell good just because hes a Republican.

by the way, does anyone out there listen to Jay Severin? i hear he has gone national. I used to listen to him up in Boston. A right winger whose show i loved because the guy is so funny and will say so if a Repub screws up.