Should the Pens consider trading Malkin?

[HometownGal]

Hell Freakin NO WAY!!! Nor should we trade Fleury or Sid and we need to get Serg signed for another 2.

I think we do need to get a couple of good wingers to flank him and Sid, though.

[KeiselPower99]

Originally Posted by zulater

You don't read much I gather. You certainly didn't take the time to read the opening post, or if you did your comprehension skills are certainly lacking.

I'm fine that you disagree with the thought of trading Malkin. But there is sound logic to it and the possibility that it will someday happen is more than remote.

I read alot. I dont see a positive reason to trade him. It would hurt the overall depth of the team. I understand the things we could get in return. Just because he was injured for the season and didnt have a good playoff season isnt the reason to trade a 100 point player.

[zulater]

http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pitt.../s_681429.html

Three centers. One Stanley Cup.

Four years into general manager Ray Shero's plan to provide Pittsburgh hockey fans with a perennial contender, there is a numbers crunch.

It's more than the $21.4 million in salary-cap space the Penguins have committed to Sidney Crosby, Evgeni Malkin (each at $8.7 million) and Jordan Staal ($4 million) each of the next three seasons.

That trio has powered the Penguins to 38 playoff wins and one Cup title.

However, the Penguins are also a one-and-done title team. Crosby, Malkin and Staal, who played injured, combined for four goals in a second-round loss to the Canadiens.

One-and-done doesn't sit well with an ownership that spent to the salary-cap ceiling. Mario Lemieux and Ron Burkle want to win again next season and for seasons to follow.

There are three steps Shero can take this offseason to get the Penguins back to where they once belonged.

Field offers for Malkin

Crosby and Malkin will be more dominant with a young, skilled wing to grow with.

However, given the cap constraints, the only way to land that wing is to move one of them for a package that would upgrade the roster and replenish a system that lacks impact forwards beyond top prospect Eric Tangradi.

Staal's development as a Selke Trophy candidate for his defensive work and offensive upside -- at 21, he has produced three 20-goal seasons as a third-liner -- gives the Penguins the option of trading Crosby or Malkin. Staal is a prototype No. 2 center and an emerging dressing-room leader.

The Penguins won't trade Crosby, who aside from being team captain is the franchise's face. Malkin, already a scoring champion and playoff MVP at 23, is the guy to shop.

Shero should start making calls to his contemporaries, and his first words should be: "Make me an offer for Malkin." It must include a top-line wing, a top-pairing defenseman, two roster players and either two top prospects or two first-round picks.

To give up Geno, the Penguins must get the world in return. If they get it, their Cup window won't be limited to three seasons, as it will be with the three-center plan

[X-Terminator]

Originally Posted by zulater

Shero should start making calls to his contemporaries, and his first words should be: "Make me an offer for Malkin." It must include a top-line wing, a top-pairing defenseman, two roster players and either two top prospects or two first-round picks.

To give up Geno, the Penguins must get the world in return. If they get it, their Cup window won't be limited to three seasons, as it will be with the three-center plan

Which pretty much means there's no chance in hell of that happening. There isn't a team in the league who will give up that much for Malkin and set his franchise back years. Not only that, Malkin will have absolutely no margin for error and must produce huge numbers every season. Can he handle that kind of pressure? I seriously doubt it.

He isn't going anywhere. Trade Staal if they really want to bring in a top-line winger. You need top-end talent if you're going to win the Cup, period.

God, the sheer panic around here after the Pens' loss is getting ridiculous.

[zulater]

Originally Posted by X-Terminator

Which pretty much means there's no chance in hell of that happening. There isn't a team in the league who will give up that much for Malkin and set his franchise back years. Not only that, Malkin will have absolutely no margin for error and must produce huge numbers every season. Can he handle that kind of pressure? I seriously doubt it.

He isn't going anywhere. Trade Staal if they really want to bring in a top-line winger. You need top-end talent if you're going to win the Cup, period.

God, the sheer panic around here after the Pens' loss is getting ridiculous.

Where's the panic? Basically what both of us have proposed is a proactive move, but only if it's at the right price.

And you'd be surprised what you can realize in a trade if you're dealing from a position of strength especially if your trade partner is desperate and either trying to save his job or sell out his building.( preferably both) . It's only when your hand has been weakened ( "dying alive" for instance) that you screw yourself in a trade.

I'm telling you, chances are you take a three year peak into the future and you're not going to see Sid and Geno on the same team. That's not hate, that's not panic, that's just one logical assumption you can come to if you know the history of elite athletes.

I'll tell you this much, if Mario had someway found his way onto the Oilers in his early years I'll guarantee you that he'd have been miserable playing in Gretzky's shadow within 3 years. (If you don't believe do some research on the man). And I can guarantee you Mario will be keeping a cloose eye on Geno looking for the early signs of discontent.

Last thing. Regardless of what happens I'll always love Malkin. Half of you here destroying me over a simpe hypothetical probably booed our franchishes second best player mercilessly on every shift after he left the Pens. I've always thought Jagr's treatment by a preponderance of Penguins fans is shamefull.

[X-Terminator]

Originally Posted by zulater

Where's the panic? Basically what both of us have proposed is a proactive move, but only if it's at the right price.

And you'd be surprised what you can realize in a trade if you're dealing from a position of strength especially if your trade partner is desperate and either trying to save his job or sell out his building.( preferably both) . It's only when your hand has been weakened ( "dying alive" for instance) that you screw yourself in a trade.

I'm telling you, chances are you take a three year peak into the future and you're not going to see Sid and Geno on the same team. That's not hate, that's not panic, that's just one logical assumption you can come to if you know the history of elite athletes.

I'll tell you this much, if Mario had someway found his way onto the Oilers in his early years I'll guarantee you that he'd have been miserable playing in Gretzky's shadow within 3 years. (If you don't believe do some research on the man). And I can guarantee you Mario will be keeping a cloose eye on Geno looking for the early signs of discontent.

Last thing. Regardless of what happens I'll always love Malkin. Half of you here destroying me over a simpe hypothetical probably booed our franchishes second best player mercilessly on every shift after he left the Pens. I've always thought Jagr's treatment by a preponderance of Penguins fans is shamefull.

Yeah, I did boo Jagr. Why? Because he deserved it. There was no reason at all for him to say he was "dying alive" when for 3 and a half seasons, he was THE man on the Pens between Mario's first retirement and his comeback. He had his chance to lead the team to a Cup and he couldn't get it done. So you're telling me that for a year and a half, he was so unhappy because Mario was back and getting all of the press, that he forced a trade? No freaking way, and the real reason why he was upset was because he knew the Pens wouldn't be able to pay him what he felt he was worth. And answer this - if he really was so concerned about being "the man," why then did he basically mail in his performances while he was in Washington? He was "the man" then, and did nothing before being shipped to New York. No, Jagr was an extremely selfish person, so far at the other spectrum from Malkin that they aren't even in the same area code as far as personality goes.

Again, there is absolutely no way any team will give up that much in a trade. None. We're talking about an era where if you want to have long-term success, you need to do it via the draft, because the salary cap prevents teams from attempting to "buy" championship teams every year by signing every big-name free agent they can. Look at how much heat Brian Burke is taking for trading his #1 pick to the Bruins for Phil Kessel, which is going to turn out to be either Taylor Hall or Tyler Seguin, depending on who the Oilers prefer. The Bruins' goalie Tuukka Rask was drafted by the Leafs, and was promptly traded to the Bruins for Andrew Raycroft. Oops! (Though admittedly that was their former GM who did that and not Burke.) Burke also gave up a #1 next year too in that Kessel deal. How in the world is a GM supposed to rebuild when he's giving away top-5 draft picks? I can't see any team giving up 4 players, 2 of them being top-line players, plus 2 #1 picks for anyone, even if it was Crosby or Ovechkin. It will not happen. The Pens will never get equal value in any trade for Malkin, plain and simple. Mario isn't stupid - while you may think he's looking for any signs of discontent with Malkin, he also knows the backlash he and Shero will get from the fans if he trades him, and especially if he trades him and gets nowhere near equal value for him. And evidently, you and the author of the story aren't alone, because I read on another board a rumor that the Pens may deal both Malkin and Gonchar to either LA or St. Louis. There's a better chance of me suiting up and playing for the Pens next season than that ever happening.

Still think this is nothing more than panic because the Pens lost, because apparently they have become the Steelers and have to win the Stanley Cup every year for the fans to be satisfied.

[zulater]

Originally Posted by X-Terminator

Yeah, I did boo Jagr. Why? Because he deserved it. There was no reason at all for him to say he was "dying alive" when for 3 and a half seasons, he was THE man on the Pens between Mario's first retirement and his comeback. He had his chance to lead the team to a Cup and he couldn't get it done. So you're telling me that for a year and a half, he was so unhappy because Mario was back and getting all of the press, that he forced a trade? No freaking way, and the real reason why he was upset was because he knew the Pens wouldn't be able to pay him what he felt he was worth.

Yeah I know it was all about money with Jaromir. And I'm not saying he and Geno are the same guy. But i will say this. You tell me what signs Jagr showed of being a sulky a-hole prior to the ship hitting the fan? Jagr as a young Penguin was usually among the first players on the ice and the last to leave. He loved the city, and was loved back.

And answer this - if he really was so concerned about being "the man," why then did he basically mail in his performances while he was in Washington? He was "the man" then, and did nothing before being shipped to New York. No, Jagr was an extremely selfish person, so far at the other spectrum from Malkin that they aren't even in the same area code as far as personality goes.

He became selfish, but he wasn't always. And even then I think there was something more at work. Jagr had a gambling habit, think he might have put himself in a bad situation with the wrong people. He really wigged out, I think it was as much to do with some off the ice problems as it was to do with his Penguin situation.

Again, there is absolutely no way any team will give up that much in a trade. None. We're talking about an era where if you want to have long-term success, you need to do it via the draft, because the salary cap prevents teams from attempting to "buy" championship teams every year by signing every big-name free agent they can. Look at how much heat Brian Burke is taking for trading his #1 pick to the Bruins for Phil Kessel, which is going to turn out to be either Taylor Hall or Tyler Seguin, depending on who the Oilers prefer. The Bruins' goalie Tuukka Rask was drafted by the Leafs, and was promptly traded to the Bruins for Andrew Raycroft. Oops! (Though admittedly that was their former GM who did that and not Burke.) Burke also gave up a #1 next year too in that Kessel deal. How in the world is a GM supposed to rebuild when he's giving away top-5 draft picks? I can't see any team giving up 4 players, 2 of them being top-line players, plus 2 #1 picks for anyone, even if it was Crosby or Ovechkin. It will not happen. The Pens will never get equal value in any trade for Malkin, plain and simple. Mario isn't stupid - while you may think he's looking for any signs of discontent with Malkin, he also knows the backlash he and Shero will get from the fans if he trades him, and especially if he trades him and gets nowhere near equal value for him. And evidently, you and the author of the story aren't alone, because I read on another board a rumor that the Pens may deal both Malkin and Gonchar to either LA or St. Louis.

There's another angle I hadn't even thought of before. If Gonchar leaves there goes Geno's mentor and friend. Granted he's further along in his career now and doesn't need a baby sitter, but still losing his fellow country man ( if it happens as many speculate it will) could end up eroding Geno's feeling of safe harbor in Pittsburgh.

There's a better chance of me suiting up and playing for the Pens next season than that ever happening.

Yeah right.

Still think this is nothing more than panic because the Pens lost, because apparently they have become the Steelers and have to win the Stanley Cup every year for the fans to be satisfied.

No it's just speculation, that's all. As a sports fan it's something we sometimes do. What's wrong with exercising our inner G.M. every now and again?

And last thing as far as Jagr goes. I didn't appreciate his antics at the end of his stint in Pittsburgh. But his play was so great for so long with our team that I just learned to quickly sweep it under the rug. He truly was a special player, even that last year when he was with the Rangers and he played against us in the playoffs i couldn't help but marvel at his talent. Not that I minded a little the Pens kicking his Rangers ass. But the point is Jaromir was too special of a player and never really that bad of a person that i could truly dislike him.

[Shea]

Ugh.

Why mess with what you might get when you already got it?

[HometownGal]

Originally Posted by X-Terminator

Yeah, I did boo Jagr. Why? Because he deserved it. There was no reason at all for him to say he was "dying alive" when for 3 and a half seasons, he was THE man on the Pens between Mario's first retirement and his comeback. He had his chance to lead the team to a Cup and he couldn't get it done. So you're telling me that for a year and a half, he was so unhappy because Mario was back and getting all of the press, that he forced a trade? No freaking way, and the real reason why he was upset was because he knew the Pens wouldn't be able to pay him what he felt he was worth. And answer this - if he really was so concerned about being "the man," why then did he basically mail in his performances while he was in Washington? He was "the man" then, and did nothing before being shipped to New York. No, Jagr was an extremely selfish person, so far at the other spectrum from Malkin that they aren't even in the same area code as far as personality goes.

I take pride in booing that jackass every chance I get for exactly the reasons you stated above. You, me and about 10,000 other Pens fans every time his fat whiny ass came back to play at Mellon Arena whether with the Caps or the Rags.

It used to gag me to look across the ice and see the "Ring of Honor" with Jagr and the "C" on his jersey. He never took on that role as a captain, imho - Ronnie Francis was more of a captain than Jagr could have ever hoped to be. The way I see it, that "C" on Jagr's jersey referred to another word that begins with a "C" which I would have to ban myself for if I posted it.

[zulater]

Originally Posted by HometownGal

I take pride in booing that jackass every chance I get for exactly the reasons you stated above. You, me and about 10,000 other Pens fans every time his fat whiny ass came back to play at Mellon Arena whether with the Caps or the Rags.

It used to gag me to look across the ice and see the "Ring of Honor" with Jagr and the "C" on his jersey. He never took on that role as a captain, imho - Ronnie Francis was more of a captain than Jagr could have ever hoped to be. The way I see it, that "C" on Jagr's jersey referred to another word that begins with a "C" which I would have to ban myself for if I posted it.

http://www.hockey-reference.com/players/j/jagrja01.html

[YOUTUBE]oDX0pxdidB4[/YOUTUBE]

So because of a few bad months at the end of his Penguin career you're going to forget 11 mostly great seasons?

When Mario went down after Adam Graves tomahawked his hand in the 92 playoffs do you remember who stepped up? You think we get by the Rangers and go on to defend the Cup without Jagr?

http://video.aol.com/video-detail/19...d-2/4170026762


You pride yourself on booing someone who won 5 Art Ross trophy's as a Pen? We're not talking have a cup of coffee Hossa here.

I can understand some of the initial anger with Jagr. Similiar to Ben, Jagr had a lot of immaturity issues, he really was a jackass for the last part of the 2000-2001 season., may be even a little before it too. And I know he mailed it in with the Capitals for reasons I couldn't begin to imagine, nor could I care less about. ( if I were a Caps fan I would certainly hate Jagr) But damn what a joy to watch for most of those 11 years. He was simply mersmerizing with the puck. The way he could control the flow of a game, I'm not sure I've ever seen a winger come close to it the way he did. Well sorry but I can't poison those memories for his actions over a couple months. It just doesn't wipe out all those tremendous moments.

I really hope at some point you and other Penguins fans will find it in your heart to forgive one of the greatest players to ever don a Penguins uniform. Not only do you owe it to Jaromir ( imo) for 11 mostly great seasons, but you also owe it to yourselves.

Sorry for the preachy rant, but I really think peo0ple need to give serious consideration to letting the Jagr hate go.