Gay parents more likely to have gay kids.

[Shea]

Originally Posted by zulater

Uh because you disagree with it? Usual leftist approach, if you disagree with the premise you dismiss the research without thought or consideration as to the actual content or conclusions.

You can claim that being gay or straight is an inborn thing, that a person can't be influenced to be something they're not, and to a large degree you'd be right, but not entirely. And that's where this topic starts and can lead to reasonable conversation among reasonable people.

Zu, don't sass me. It just makes me cranky.

Originally Posted by lionslicer

Gay parents usually train their kids to be gay because they think its the cool thing to be or something... The kids don't grow up gay just because their parents are gay, they are usually forced to be gay... I've heard stories of straight parents training their kids to grow up gay.. its rediculous... But its like christians who train their kids to grow up straight

Huh ....

Maybe growing up in a parental enviroment that is made up in a same sex situation will probably, which makes sense, make a child more open to experimentation as far as sex goes when they grow to that age, but to me it's so simple.

Who here has fallen in love?

Nobody, no upbringing, not any circumstance can stop that. It's one of the most powerful forces besides the love of our children that there is.

Parental sexuality can in no way influence that.

You're either gay or you aren't. It can no way be determined by others.

[urgle burgle]

well, then i guess we won't agree on that premise. i read the articles, and they were inconclusive at best, concerning my initial question. the last one was mostly about the fact that some straight homes suck, and that a gay couple or gay single could raise the child better. i agree with that. but, that wasn't the question or "hypothetical." others said they scored better as far as school, self-esteem, acclimation in social circles, etc. but those are only small areas in one's life. and i know quite well that life isn't black and white, but if a foundation for ongoing discussion can be reached, then we can get into all the ongoing greys of the world.

[SteelersinCA]

Originally Posted by urgle burgle

well, then i guess we won't agree on that premise. i read the articles, and they were inconclusive at best, concerning my initial question. the last one was mostly about the fact that some straight homes suck, and that a gay couple or gay single could raise the child better. i agree with that. but, that wasn't the question or "hypothetical." others said they scored better as far as school, self-esteem, acclimation in social circles, etc. but those are only small areas in one's life. and i know quite well that life isn't black and white, but if a foundation for ongoing discussion can be reached, then we can get into all the ongoing greys of the world.

Well I guess we better define better before we decide which is better. But in order to save us the trouble it seems the scientific literature suggest the difference are negligible. Can we at least agree on that?

[urgle burgle]

i'm game, on certain points. i can agree with what some of the articles covered. self-esteem, some parts of societal acclimation. i would like to see some of the sample questions, etc. i think the problem you may have an issue with is the word, "better" and how you deem it being used. i use it for lack of a better word. i don't think that the people within these families are any less, than any other. or that children within them will grow up to be serial killers or twisted pedophiles. it is a bit of the same conversation on communism. in my mind, communism and true marxism are, in a sense, an ideal. in a perfect utopian world. but, neither works, and only leads to problems(to put it mildly). in part it addresses your issue with the hypothetical. the world is not as we wish it to be, but we should try to get there, as long as the journey does not lead to more anguish.

[SteelersinCA]

Originally Posted by urgle burgle

i'm game, on certain points. i can agree with what some of the articles covered. self-esteem, some parts of societal acclimation. i would like to see some of the sample questions, etc. i think the problem you may have an issue with is the word, "better" and how you deem it being used. i use it for lack of a better word. i don't think that the people within these families are any less, than any other. or that children within them will grow up to be serial killers or twisted pedophiles. it is a bit of the same conversation on communism. in my mind, communism and true marxism are, in a sense, an ideal. in a perfect utopian world. but, neither works, and only leads to problems(to put it mildly). in part it addresses your issue with the hypothetical. the world is not as we wish it to be, but we should try to get there, as long as the journey does not lead to more anguish.

Well I see your point, but you have to realize that less than 1% of the population claims to be gay. As the article points out, it's tough to do studies on it because of the small sample size.

I guess my problem with the hypothetical is that we inherently assume a straight family would be "better" because that's been the norm for so long AND we tend to view gay as bad. There are lots of things in life I see as having multiple viable alternatives. The saying is there is more than one way to skin a cat. Now debates can rage about which is optimal, but how do you resolve that debate.

My larger point is, I don't think anyone can answer which is better with any real honesty or certainty. I know I would like to see more scientific studies before I would make a conclusion about which is better. Gay is a relatively new phenomenon. I like to keep an open mind about it, which you sound like you do as well.

You are 100% correct, my problem is with the word better. Perhaps a more specific definition would facilitate a discussion. I'll let you decide on that definition and we'll go from there.

[steelax04]

Originally Posted by lionslicer

Gay parents usually train their kids to be gay because they think its the cool thing to be or something... The kids don't grow up gay just because their parents are gay, they are usually forced to be gay... I've heard stories of straight parents training their kids to grow up gay.. its rediculous... But its like christians who train their kids to grow up straight

So my best friend's parents have one gay son and one straight son. You're saying they trained one to be gay and one to be straight? Really?

[caplovestroyp43]

Originally Posted by SteelersinCA

You're absolutely right according to Christian belief, but what's that have to do with our government in light of separation of church and state and all? Would it be OK with you if the government decided to tax your religion? Of course not.

Do you SERIOUSLY want my opinion? If you do, let me know and I will give it to you. You might not like it. But if you want it, I will share it.

[lionslicer]

Originally Posted by steelax04

So my best friend's parents have one gay son and one straight son. You're saying they trained one to be gay and one to be straight? Really?

No I said some do ... =\
There's people who do it, then there's kids who actually end up gay and straight...

You people are so quick to judge sometimes... I'm sorry I'm not that great in grammer can't really explain it, maybe this will help.

With any culture, there are parents who want their kids to do something that they want. Parents force kids to play sports, or play an instrument, or a number of things.. There was this college football player not long ago where his dad forced him to throw left handed his whole life.

There are parents who teach their kids to be gay from birth. I'm not saying every gay parent does this, but I know people, and I'm sure if you ever watched tv you have also seen gay parents who raise there kids to be gay and not make a decision.

To some people being gay is a biological thing, but even if you come out straight, physcology says your envirement could change what you really want or know you want.

[zulater]

Originally Posted by Shea

Zu, don't sass me. It just makes me cranky.



Huh ....

Maybe growing up in a parental enviroment that is made up in a same sex situation will probably, which makes sense, make a child more open to experimentation as far as sex goes when they grow to that age, but to me it's so simple.

Who here has fallen in love?

Nobody, no upbringing, not any circumstance can stop that. It's one of the most powerful forces besides the love of our children that there is.

Parental sexuality can in no way influence that.

You're either gay or you aren't. It can no way be determined by others.

shea if your first responce on the thread had been similiar to this post I never would have sassed you.

I have no problem with anyone having a contrary opinion to my own on this or any other subject. My only problem was the shut down dismissive nature of your earliar post, as if the subject matter is so clear cut to one side that to think anything other than what you believe is absolutley ridiculous

.To some degree i think that's one of the biggest mistakes of our major political parties today. Both the left and the right have become so immersed in their own logic and agenda that they dismiss the centist nature of their constiuency, and therefore take it for granted that they own the middle ground if they won the most recent election. And of course as was evident in the midterms of 2006 and the upcoming election next month, when you take the swing vote for granted and legislate from the extreme when you had campaigned from the middle you're going to pay at the polls.

Ok, I went a littleoff the path with that anology, but the point is, I don't believe the views I've expessed here are extreme. Perhaps I'm wrong, but tell me why you think I'm wrong rather than telling me I'm an idiot to ever entertain such a notion to begin with.

[urgle burgle]

Originally Posted by SteelersinCA

Well I see your point, but you have to realize that less than 1% of the population claims to be gay. As the article points out, it's tough to do studies on it because of the small sample size.

I guess my problem with the hypothetical is that we inherently assume a straight family would be "better" because that's been the norm for so long AND we tend to view gay as bad. There are lots of things in life I see as having multiple viable alternatives. The saying is there is more than one way to skin a cat. Now debates can rage about which is optimal, but how do you resolve that debate.

My larger point is, I don't think anyone can answer which is better with any real honesty or certainty. I know I would like to see more scientific studies before I would make a conclusion about which is better. Gay is a relatively new phenomenon. I like to keep an open mind about it, which you sound like you do as well.

You are 100% correct, my problem is with the word better. Perhaps a more specific definition would facilitate a discussion. I'll let you decide on that definition and we'll go from there.

i think you already said the word, "optimal". so let's go with that. i am one that thinks we get too hung on symantics and linguistics, and i think this society has gone pc overboard, but, that being said, i look for common ground to discuss things of interest and importance. take care.