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Old 01-20-2011, 06:18 PM   #11
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Default Re: Roethlisberger works to rebuild trust

Quote:
Originally Posted by FanSince72 View Post
Whether he's actually guilty or not from a legal perspective isn't really the point.
SOMETHING happened in Georgia and it probably wasn't pretty.

But I think that everyone is entitled to do something extremely stupid or go through a moment in their life when they are perhaps not showing their best side and not have it held against them forever.

But that doesn't mean that whatever they did should just be forgotten. If they can move on from that point and by their future actions demonstrate that whatever stupid thing they did or behavior they demonstrated was an anomaly or that they've learned from the experience and understand the importance of it, then I have absolutely no problem allowing that person the opportunity to straighten things out and get pointed back in the right direction and eventually I think the slate can be wiped clean.

Everybody deserves a second chance.

But if those second (or third or more) chances are taken for granted or if the sincerity of the person being given that chance proves to be little more than an act and they once again continue to do the same stupid things and not caring about the people they're hurting and ignore the help they're being offered, then they deserve whatever happens to them.

Nobody's perfect and everyone makes mistakes. But the trick is to learn from those mistakes and recognize that no one lives in a vacuum and that the things that a person does rarely only affects just themselves and usually affects many people.

There's no shame in admitting that you don't have all the answers or that maybe the universe doesn't revolve around you and that maybe you need some help sorting things out.

It seems that Ben has realized that and I hope that he can continue to move forward in a positive way and that as time goes by, people can see their way clear to allow him to be less than perfect --- just like the rest of us.
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Old 01-20-2011, 08:51 PM   #12
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Default Re: Roethlisberger works to rebuild trust

If the Steelers do win the Superbowl, Ben's real season starts in the off season and his personal Super Bowl would be reaching the end of it without any mishaps.
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Old 01-20-2011, 08:55 PM   #13
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Default Re: Roethlisberger works to rebuild trust

Quote:
Originally Posted by FanSince72 View Post
Whether he's actually guilty or not from a legal perspective isn't really the point.
SOMETHING happened in Georgia and it probably wasn't pretty.

But I think that everyone is entitled to do something extremely stupid or go through a moment in their life when they are perhaps not showing their best side and not have it held against them forever.

But that doesn't mean that whatever they did should just be forgotten. If they can move on from that point and by their future actions demonstrate that whatever stupid thing they did or behavior they demonstrated was an anomaly or that they've learned from the experience and understand the importance of it, then I have absolutely no problem allowing that person the opportunity to straighten things out and get pointed back in the right direction and eventually I think the slate can be wiped clean.

Everybody deserves a second chance.

But if those second (or third or more) chances are taken for granted or if the sincerity of the person being given that chance proves to be little more than an act and they once again continue to do the same stupid things and not caring about the people they're hurting and ignore the help they're being offered, then they deserve whatever happens to them.

Nobody's perfect and everyone makes mistakes. But the trick is to learn from those mistakes and recognize that no one lives in a vacuum and that the things that a person does rarely only affects just themselves and usually affects many people.

There's no shame in admitting that you don't have all the answers or that maybe the universe doesn't revolve around you and that maybe you need some help sorting things out.

It seems that Ben has realized that and I hope that he can continue to move forward in a positive way and that as time goes by, people can see their way clear to allow him to be less than perfect --- just like the rest of us.
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Old 01-20-2011, 09:45 PM   #14
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Default Re: Roethlisberger works to rebuild trust

Quote:
Originally Posted by FanSince72 View Post

But I think that everyone is entitled to do something extremely stupid or go through a moment in their life when they are perhaps not showing their best side and not have it held against them forever.
Great quote, '72.

I can sympathize with Ben because I think his problems were not so much his attitude, so much as attitude+hormones+ALCOHOL, and I had my own dark chapter in my life with alcohol.

Folks like to say things like "alcohol makes the true you come out" and whatnot, but that is NOT true. I'll dump a little bit of myself out here.....for those that are interested. Sorry if this is kinda boring....

------------------------------------------------

I started drinking and "partying" (a loose term that translates to "willing to try putting anything in my body") back in high school, when my parents split up. I did not realize it back then, but I was an angry, angry teenager, which is contrary to my normally easy-going and compassionate nature. I DID NOT handle my parents' divorce well at all, nor did I handle being one of the only minorities in a small rural town in northeastern PA.

After raping and pillaging two colleges/universities, I joined the Navy, where I replaced my other previous habits with drinking. And being a sailor, drink I did.... Friday night would roll around, and if I did not have a plan for who, where, when, and how we were getting drunk that night, I felt like I was doing something wrong....like I forgot to pay rent or something.

I spent my entire 7 years in the military as a 4.0 sailor, made Junior Sailor of the Quarter twice, served on the ship's boarding team and a whole host of other high-profile duties, but my hours away from the ship became somewhat of a black mark, my drinking got so bad. It got to the point where it was a running joke every Monday that everyone was happy I showed up for quarters unharmed and/or the ship did not have to send the Master-at-Arms to pick me up from County jail or the brig (became a ritual for a little while).

Eventually, my drinking cost me my military career. I was discharged early from a Marine Corps/Navy command (but fortunately, I still got discharged under Honorable conditions as my service was otherwise superb), and things looked pretty bleak, with no higher education to work with.

However, to make a long story short, sometimes, when good people get caught up in that kind of behavior, they either need someone else to intervene, or some major calamity has to hit for the person to realize they are destroying themselves (a.k.a. "rock bottom"). My early discharge was mine-- it took them a year and a half of legal proceedings to finally discharge me, a year and a half of pure, condensed, STRESS.

I met a great woman, though, and while she would never tell me I was doing something wrong (she was paranoid about being a ball-n-chain), I saw the toll my actions were taking on her, as well as my mother (who is disabled and has always been in tow for my life's journey from PA to CA), and it was too much for me to bear.

Since that time, I used my Montgomery GI Bill to put myself through some schooling, gained certifications, quit drinking, and am now a happily married man to the same woman who put up with all my drinking and misdemeanoring those nasty years. I have a nice job as a Cisco network engineer at a large company, and am preparing to buy my first house soon (hopefully). My mom actually trusts my judgement now, and depends on me to take care of her, which I do with the utmost caring and affection.

Again, folks that say that alcohol makes the "true you" come out or whatever, are WRONG. I still drink and party to this day, but in a way that does not interfere with me GETTING THE JOB DONE and BEING A DESCENT HUMAN BEING.

Looking back on those troubled years, I am not sure why or how it happened, or what mechanism of my personality caused all that to come out. I drink and still "party" now, but for some reason I don't have all those problems anymore, and do so at a "social level" without waking up in the concrete 10' x 10' drunk tank anymore.... My behavior those years could not have been more contrary to my person-- while I am a passionate and wild guy who likes to have fun, I was never criminal or outright destructive, violent, or mean, quite the opposite.

Alcohol used to cause a Jeckyl/Hyde kind of transformation, and I saw the same things happening to Big Ben 9and some of the other guys on the team-- Matt Spaeth pissing into a plant potter on the street outside the bar, Jeff Reed and kicking towel dispensers off the wall-- all sounds familiar, like the actions of single, 22 year old military members).

He probably woke up many mornings, as did I, thinking back on the nights previous, and wondering how things got so efffed up, and feeling embarassed by remembering his own drunken, boorish behavior.

That segment at the end of Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas, when Hunter was talking about all those mornings waking up to "splintered, horrible memories of wild, jibber-jabbering nights", only truly makes sense to those that have been to that brink before.....

I am happy to see Ben is recognizing his earlier self as an alternate ego that must be stamped out of existence. Sounds like he found himself a descent woman, and now has something else to live for.

Props to you, Ben--- I know how it feels.
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Old 01-20-2011, 09:50 PM   #15
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Default Re: Roethlisberger works to rebuild trust

Very cool story. I'm glad you didn't give up on yourself. True warrior.
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Old 01-20-2011, 09:58 PM   #16
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Default Re: Roethlisberger works to rebuild trust

Quote:
Originally Posted by Riddle_Of_Steel View Post
Great quote, '72.

I can sympathize with Ben because I think his problems were not so much his attitude, so much as attitude+hormones+ALCOHOL, and I had my own dark chapter in my life with alcohol.

Folks like to say things like "alcohol makes the true you come out" and whatnot, but that is NOT true. I'll dump a little bit of myself out here.....for those that are interested. Sorry if this is kinda boring....

------------------------------------------------

I started drinking and "partying" (a loose term that translates to "willing to try putting anything in my body") back in high school, when my parents split up. I did not realize it back then, but I was an angry, angry teenager, which is contrary to my normally easy-going and compassionate nature. I DID NOT handle my parents' divorce well at all, nor did I handle being one of the only minorities in a small rural town in northeastern PA.

After raping and pillaging two colleges/universities, I joined the Navy, where I replaced my other previous habits with drinking. And being a sailor, drink I did.... Friday night would roll around, and if I did not have a plan for who, where, when, and how we were getting drunk that night, I felt like I was doing something wrong....like I forgot to pay rent or something.

I spent my entire 7 years in the military as a 4.0 sailor, made Junior Sailor of the Quarter twice, served on the ship's boarding team and a whole host of other high-profile duties, but my hours away from the ship became somewhat of a black mark, my drinking got so bad. It got to the point where it was a running joke every Monday that everyone was happy I showed up for quarters unharmed and/or the ship did not have to send the Master-at-Arms to pick me up from County jail or the brig (became a ritual for a little while).

Eventually, my drinking cost me my military career. I was discharged early from a Marine Corps/Navy command (but fortunately, I still got discharged under Honorable conditions as my service was otherwise superb), and things looked pretty bleak, with no higher education to work with.

However, to make a long story short, sometimes, when good people get caught up in that kind of behavior, they either need someone else to intervene, or some major calamity has to hit for the person to realize they are destroying themselves (a.k.a. "rock bottom"). My early discharge was mine-- it took them a year and a half of legal proceedings to finally discharge me, a year and a half of pure, condensed, STRESS.

I met a great woman, though, and while she would never tell me I was doing something wrong (she was paranoid about being a ball-n-chain), I saw the toll my actions were taking on her, as well as my mother (who is disabled and has always been in tow for my life's journey from PA to CA), and it was too much for me to bear.

Since that time, I used my Montgomery GI Bill to put myself through some schooling, gained certifications, quit drinking, and am now a happily married man to the same woman who put up with all my drinking and misdemeanoring those nasty years. I have a nice job as a Cisco network engineer at a large company, and am preparing to buy my first house soon (hopefully). My mom actually trusts my judgement now, and depends on me to take care of her, which I do with the utmost caring and affection.

Again, folks that say that alcohol makes the "true you" come out or whatever, are WRONG. I still drink and party to this day, but in a way that does not interfere with me GETTING THE JOB DONE and BEING A DESCENT HUMAN BEING.

Looking back on those troubled years, I am not sure why or how it happened, or what mechanism of my personality caused all that to come out. I drink and still "party" now, but for some reason I don't have all those problems anymore, and do so at a "social level" without waking up in the concrete 10' x 10' drunk tank anymore.... My behavior those years could not have been more contrary to my person-- while I am a passionate and wild guy who likes to have fun, I was never criminal or outright destructive, violent, or mean, quite the opposite.

Alcohol used to cause a Jeckyl/Hyde kind of transformation, and I saw the same things happening to Big Ben 9and some of the other guys on the team-- Matt Spaeth pissing into a plant potter on the street outside the bar, Jeff Reed and kicking towel dispensers off the wall-- all sounds familiar, like the actions of single, 22 year old military members).

He probably woke up many mornings, as did I, thinking back on the nights previous, and wondering how things got so efffed up, and feeling embarassed by remembering his own drunken, boorish behavior.

That segment at the end of Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas, when Hunter was talking about all those mornings waking up to "splintered, horrible memories of wild, jibber-jabbering nights", only truly makes sense to those that have been to that brink before.....

I am happy to see Ben is recognizing his earlier self as an alternate ego that must be stamped out of existence. Sounds like he found himself a descent woman, and now has something else to live for.

Props to you, Ben--- I know how it feels.


****ing awesome man and THANKS for your service to our country!
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Old 01-20-2011, 09:58 PM   #17
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Default Re: Roethlisberger works to rebuild trust

Quote:
Originally Posted by Riddle_Of_Steel View Post
Great quote, '72.

I can sympathize with Ben because I think his problems were not so much his attitude, so much as attitude+hormones+ALCOHOL, and I had my own dark chapter in my life with alcohol.

Folks like to say things like "alcohol makes the true you come out" and whatnot, but that is NOT true. I'll dump a little bit of myself out here.....for those that are interested. Sorry if this is kinda boring....

------------------------------------------------

I started drinking and "partying" (a loose term that translates to "willing to try putting anything in my body") back in high school, when my parents split up. I did not realize it back then, but I was an angry, angry teenager, which is contrary to my normally easy-going and compassionate nature. I DID NOT handle my parents' divorce well at all, nor did I handle being one of the only minorities in a small rural town in northeastern PA.

After raping and pillaging two colleges/universities, I joined the Navy, where I replaced my other previous habits with drinking. And being a sailor, drink I did.... Friday night would roll around, and if I did not have a plan for who, where, when, and how we were getting drunk that night, I felt like I was doing something wrong....like I forgot to pay rent or something.

I spent my entire 7 years in the military as a 4.0 sailor, made Junior Sailor of the Quarter twice, served on the ship's boarding team and a whole host of other high-profile duties, but my hours away from the ship became somewhat of a black mark, my drinking got so bad. It got to the point where it was a running joke every Monday that everyone was happy I showed up for quarters unharmed and/or the ship did not have to send the Master-at-Arms to pick me up from County jail or the brig (became a ritual for a little while).

Eventually, my drinking cost me my military career. I was discharged early from a Marine Corps/Navy command (but fortunately, I still got discharged under Honorable conditions as my service was otherwise superb), and things looked pretty bleak, with no higher education to work with.

However, to make a long story short, sometimes, when good people get caught up in that kind of behavior, they either need someone else to intervene, or some major calamity has to hit for the person to realize they are destroying themselves (a.k.a. "rock bottom"). My early discharge was mine-- it took them a year and a half of legal proceedings to finally discharge me, a year and a half of pure, condensed, STRESS.

I met a great woman, though, and while she would never tell me I was doing something wrong (she was paranoid about being a ball-n-chain), I saw the toll my actions were taking on her, as well as my mother (who is disabled and has always been in tow for my life's journey from PA to CA), and it was too much for me to bear.

Since that time, I used my Montgomery GI Bill to put myself through some schooling, gained certifications, quit drinking, and am now a happily married man to the same woman who put up with all my drinking and misdemeanoring those nasty years. I have a nice job as a Cisco network engineer at a large company, and am preparing to buy my first house soon (hopefully). My mom actually trusts my judgement now, and depends on me to take care of her, which I do with the utmost caring and affection.

Again, folks that say that alcohol makes the "true you" come out or whatever, are WRONG. I still drink and party to this day, but in a way that does not interfere with me GETTING THE JOB DONE and BEING A DESCENT HUMAN BEING.

Looking back on those troubled years, I am not sure why or how it happened, or what mechanism of my personality caused all that to come out. I drink and still "party" now, but for some reason I don't have all those problems anymore, and do so at a "social level" without waking up in the concrete 10' x 10' drunk tank anymore.... My behavior those years could not have been more contrary to my person-- while I am a passionate and wild guy who likes to have fun, I was never criminal or outright destructive, violent, or mean, quite the opposite.

Alcohol used to cause a Jeckyl/Hyde kind of transformation, and I saw the same things happening to Big Ben 9and some of the other guys on the team-- Matt Spaeth pissing into a plant potter on the street outside the bar, Jeff Reed and kicking towel dispensers off the wall-- all sounds familiar, like the actions of single, 22 year old military members).

He probably woke up many mornings, as did I, thinking back on the nights previous, and wondering how things got so efffed up, and feeling embarassed by remembering his own drunken, boorish behavior.

That segment at the end of Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas, when Hunter was talking about all those mornings waking up to "splintered, horrible memories of wild, jibber-jabbering nights", only truly makes sense to those that have been to that brink before.....

I am happy to see Ben is recognizing his earlier self as an alternate ego that must be stamped out of existence. Sounds like he found himself a descent woman, and now has something else to live for.

Props to you, Ben--- I know how it feels.

Thanks for sharing that.

I staggered down that same road myself and I was damned lucky to find the exit ramp.

The bottom line is that when you look in the mirror, you have like who's looking back at you and if you can honestly say that you do, then you're well on your way to living a good life.


Good luck to you, man!
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Old 01-20-2011, 10:03 PM   #18
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Default Re: Roethlisberger works to rebuild trust

2 great reads. Thanks Riddle for the second one.
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Old 01-20-2011, 11:43 PM   #19
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Default Re: Roethlisberger works to rebuild trust

That was kinda tough to write--- made me sweat while I was thinking about some of that stuff I was glad to put behind me....

I am probably not the only person that has ever nearly lost his life to the devil drink. I am just glad I woke up when I did or I realize that things could get a LOT worse.
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