Mendy didn't take long!!!

[Riddle_Of_Steel]

Come on, THUMPER, you can do better than this. I argue this topic on a daily basis with my wacko shift partner (who sides with the Branch Davidians that the ATF is EVIL, just so you know what company you are keeping), and he is WAYYYYYYY more informed on his conspiracy theories than you are!

So far, you have provided links to vaerious groups of armchair experts who have banded themselves together to.........ask for a new investigation because they personally were not satisfied with the findings of the first one. A few of your links actually went to the next step and provided a couple tidbits of circumstantial evidence....

[Riddle_Of_Steel]

Originally Posted by thumper

And why would they demand a new investigation if they thought the
story was believable to begin with? Why? Just for the Fock of it?

Hence the unfavorable title of "Conspiracy theorist".....they are overly suspicious people who perceive patterns and conspiracies where there are none.

[Riddle_Of_Steel]

Some circumstantial/hypothetical questions for 9/11 Conspiracy Theorists:

1) If our government wanted to bring down the WTC to give us a reason to enter Iraq/Afghanistan, why the elaborate scheme with jet airliners? Why not just bomb the buildings and blame it on Al-Queda; there would be much less operational overhead, less planning, less costs, less training required, and it would be completely believable, since Al-Queda already bombed the WTC back in the 1990's (maybe I better ask you this: did our government stage that one too?)

2) What would we stand to gain, and what parties?

3) Here's the kicker, and the real test of your patrtiotism-- lets say hypothetically that our government DID carry out 9/11 to put us in a military conflicty with the middle east. Would you say the greater good for America is served, or not? Do you think there was a need to go to the middle east? Is there a possibility that the people who did that know something we don't? Perhaps a conflict with the middle east was absolutely necessary for our nation's continued survival, and this was the best way to do it, other than to make things public and have questions to be answered? (There is plenty of folks out there that say we would be paying somewhere around $10 - 11 per gallon at the pumps right now if we did not go to Iraq, and then, you can bet, the conspiracy theorists, subversives, and extreme left wing folks would be bitching about that too.)

[thumper]

Originally Posted by Riddle_Of_Steel

Come on, THUMPER, you can do better than this. I argue this topic on a daily basis with my wacko shift partner (who sides with the Branch Davidians that the ATF is EVIL, just so you know what company you are keeping), and he is WAYYYYYYY more informed on his conspiracy theories than you are!

So far, you have provided links to vaerious groups of armchair experts who have banded themselves together to.........ask for a new investigation because they personally were not satisfied with the findings of the first one. A few of your links actually went to the next step and provided a couple tidbits of circumstantial evidence....

So you know more than actual professional engineers, etc?

http://www.ae911truth.org/

You know more than pilots?

http://pilotsfor911truth.org/

Can you answer these questions? Why not?

http://www.911truth.org/ancien/openl...html#testimony

Why is it OK for the govt. to not answer these questions screaming
to be answered. And don't give me that line of bull shit about national
security. That is a smoke screen; revealing those questions would not
do jack shit to hurt national security, unless you consider keeping those
who made nine 11 happen as national security. Why was the FBI and CIA
so familiar with the hijackers but yet seem to be protecting them from
investigation as opposed to bringing their existence to light? How did
a guy who couldn't even fly a Cesna simulator supposedly handle a
757 like a fighter jet? Anyone of 100 questions makes it obvious what
BS their story is.

[fer522]

this is getting good

[Riddle_Of_Steel]

Originally Posted by thumper

So you know more than actual professional engineers, etc?

http://www.ae911truth.org/

Isn't that EXACTLY what you are saying? There are far more engineers AGAINST all the 9/11 conspiracies than there are for them..... So, because YOUR engineers agree with YOU-- I know more than all engineers?

Logic fail.

Since neither you nor I are civil engineers (I assume, I am an engineer, but of a different kind), we can only read through the arguments and evidence presented by both sides and try to draw our own conclusions.

Originally Posted by thumper

You know more than pilots?

http://pilotsfor911truth.org/

So...do you have any opinions on 9/11 of your own, or are you just going to continue to cite various subversive web URLs hastily put together by whatever profession you have decided to highlight as "subject matter experts" in this particular post?

Are you saying there are no pilots in America who don't believe in your 9/11 conspiracies? Are you trying to say that all pilots agree with you, and that for me to disagree with you, I am going against the whole aviation industry?

The tactic you are trying to use here is known as a logical fallacy--- argument from a position of perceived intellectual authority. Since structural engineers/pilots have a job title that is most relevant to the subject matter, you immediately elevate anything you hear from these particular, hand-picked list of engineers/pilots as gospel, without applying any of your own reason or skepticism.

Originally Posted by thumper

Can you answer these questions? Why not?

I am still waiting for answers to my 3 very simple questions I posed about two posts back....

http://www.911truth.org/ancien/openl...html#testimony

Originally Posted by thumper

Why is it OK for the govt. to not answer these questions screaming
to be answered.

Because if the government had to answer up to every crackpot and open an investigation into anyone who wants to send a letter to Congress accusing the government of unreasonable things, we would need to create a whole new branch of the government dedicated solely to conspiracy squashing (and then liberals would be b1tching about how much bureaucracy our government is wasting our time with).

The government already answered most of their questions in the 9/11 Commission's findings, the people who are asking questions just did not like the answers....

Originally Posted by thumper

And don't give me that line of bull shit about national
security.

Yeah, national security is a joke in your world, isn't it? Everybody should have complete access to all classified government documents, right? There should be no secrets..... *slaps forehead*

Originally Posted by thumper

That is a smoke screen

Based on what? Your personal opinion? Your own argument from incredulity?

Originally Posted by thumper

; revealing those questions would not
do jack shit to hurt national security, unless you consider keeping those
who made nine 11 happen as national security.

Ummm.....yeah, most of the people who made 9/11 happen are some pretty bad folks. Osama Bin Laden is proof of how much damage a single person can do, let alone 9 or 10 of them.

Originally Posted by thumper

Why was the FBI and CIA
so familiar with the hijackers but yet seem to be protecting them from
investigation as opposed to bringing their existence to light?

Again, without having access to all of the same information as Mr. Leon Panetta, neither you nor I are qualified to even speculate.

At any given time, the FBI/CIA are tracking hundreds of potential terrorists in America, but not making any aggressive move against them, possibly waiting for a better opportunity, or maybe, just maybe, waiting for thee folks to get closer to launching their plan, so as to be able to take down the most terrorists in one move, instead of jumping in too early and tipping off all the rest that you are on to them?

Maybe the CIA/FBI realized that if they made their move against those folks too early, without building a solid case against them, it would give the bleeding hearts in this country too much ammunition to seek an aquittal?

Maybe because until the hijackers actually hijacked anything, they were not committing any crime we could stick on them or take them into custody for?

Again, you and the conspiracy folks have NOTHING to bring to the table except circumstantial nonsense and rhetorical questions.....

Originally Posted by thumper

How did
a guy who couldn't even fly a Cesna simulator supposedly handle a
757 like a fighter jet? Anyone of 100 questions makes it obvious what
BS their story is.

How did a 18 year old boy wearing no shoes manage to steal several planes and fly them to the Florida keys and evade arrest for over a year (the Colston case, a.k.a. the "Barefoot Bandit")?

Stranger things have happened, cioncidences and strange happenings are the stuff of conspiracy theories. It is a natural human tendency to try and fill in the blanks with whatever will fit.....no matter how improbable or re-****-u-lous they are.

Besides, I noticed how you have to use over-the-top terminology to get your point across too. What consitutes flying a 757 "like a fighter jet"? Last I checked, the terrorists had a pretty easy job-- they did not have to take off, or worry about landing, only being able to pitch a plane on a collision course with a stationary, 110-story, 1,000,000 ton target......yaw is yaw, pitch is pitch, and a roll is a roll. If a 18 year old kid with no training can fly planes from Seattle to Bermuda, I am pretty sure it would not be a huge leap for a terrorist with an itch to cause destruction to be able to fly a plane into a building.....not sure what you mean by "like a fighter jet".....I did not notice the 757's doing barrel rolls and loop-de-loops prior to crashing themsevles into the WTC, but maybe the CIA hid those photos and videos too before they could hit Wikileaks or YouTube for people to concoct even more conspiracies.

[pete74]

Originally Posted by Riddle_Of_Steel

Or.....YOU can accept the fact that NOT EVERYBODY shares your opinions. That does not make other people's opinions wrong or incorrect, nor does it mean they should move to Mexico.

I served my country faithfully for 7 years, how about you, Pete?

I simply refuted the 9/11 conspiracy theories from a purely practical perspective. If our government couldn't get away with imprisoning a few bad people without some retard whistleblowers getting wind of it and and airing out our dirty laundry out there for all to see, what do you honestly think the chances are, that that same organization could pull off something as big as 9/11?

The 9/11 conspiracy folks are seriously deluded, is my main point, in case you needed some help figuring that out....

how about me? im a marine my man. what branch were you in? im not the one tearing up on my country you are. i figure they would of taught you proper respect in the military

[finesward]

Originally Posted by Riddle_Of_Steel

http://www.ae911truth.org/

Isn't that EXACTLY what you are saying? There are far more engineers AGAINST all the 9/11 conspiracies than there are for them..... So, because YOUR engineers agree with YOU-- I know more than all engineers?

Logic fail.

Since neither you nor I are civil engineers (I assume, I am an engineer, but of a different kind), we can only read through the arguments and evidence presented by both sides and try to draw our own conclusions.



http://pilotsfor911truth.org/

So...do you have any opinions on 9/11 of your own, or are you just going to continue to cite various subversive web URLs hastily put together by whatever profession you have decided to highlight as "subject matter experts" in this particular post?

Are you saying there are no pilots in America who don't believe in your 9/11 conspiracies? Are you trying to say that all pilots agree with you, and that for me to disagree with you, I am going against the whole aviation industry?

The tactic you are trying to use here is known as a logical fallacy--- argument from a position of perceived intellectual authority. Since structural engineers/pilots have a job title that is most relevant to the subject matter, you immediately elevate anything you hear from these particular, hand-picked list of engineers/pilots as gospel, without applying any of your own reason or skepticism.

lol, thumper is getting thumped in two separate threads consecutively

[SCMom]

Originally Posted by pete74

how about me? im a marine my man. what branch were you in? im not the one tearing up on my country you are. i figure they would of taught you proper respect in the military

I don't think he was tearing up on the country to be honest. I mean, some people in the government do some messed up stuff, but the point he was trying to make is that those people never seem to get away with it. There's always someone there to spill the beans, so to speak.

I don't doubt that the government (in general, I don't know who to point exact fingers at), took advantage of the situation after 9/11...but as Riddle has pointed out a number of times, it's silly to think that the whole thing was somehow orchestrated and covered up by an entire government. I have my suspicions about certain things, but some of the shit these people come up with is just ridiculous...like they've watched Enemy of the State or The Manchurian Candidate one too many times.

[pete74]

Originally Posted by SCMom

I don't think he was tearing up on the country to be honest. I mean, some people in the government do some messed up stuff, but the point he was trying to make is that those people never seem to get away with it. There's always someone there to spill the beans, so to speak.

I don't doubt that the government (in general, I don't know who to point exact fingers at), took advantage of the situation after 9/11...but as Riddle has pointed out a number of times, it's silly to think that the whole thing was somehow orchestrated and covered up by an entire government. I have my suspicions about certain things, but some of the shit these people come up with is just ridiculous...like they've watched Enemy of the State or The Manchurian Candidate one too many times.

agreed. its almost insane that there are actually proplr out there who belive our government orchestrated the entire thing.