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Old 09-22-2011, 02:21 PM   #21
Steelersfan87
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Default Re: offender fined for low hit on big bens knee

By the way, Doug Legursky was fined $10,000 for his clipping penalty, which I'm fine with.
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Old 09-23-2011, 02:56 AM   #22
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Default Re: offender fined for low hit on big bens knee

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Originally Posted by Dodens Grav View Post
The point isn't that he tried to tackle him. The point is that he continued to make an effort to contact him after he was tripped, and after the ball was released, and he hit Roethlisberger at the knee.
Of course he made an effort to tackle Ben after he was tripped. You can't expect a player to just fall to the ground and stay there until the play is over. And the reason he hit Ben in the knee is because he was tripped and was falling. Had he not been tripped, it would have been a perfectly legal tackle (I'm assuming).

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Because he continued to attempt to make contact, you cannot use the argument that he was tripped to justify the incident.
Again, what was he supposed to do ... fall to the ground and lie there until the ref blows the whistle?
Had he not been tripped and just dove at Ben's knees, we wouldn't even be having this discussion. But that isn't what happened. Gilbert got burned on the play and stuck out his leg to trip him. Had he not been tripped, it would have been a clean hit. So at the very least, Gilbert is just as responsible as Brock. Unless, of course, you expect him to just fall to the ground and remain there until the play is over.

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Was he aiming for the knee, or did he intend to cause an actual injury? I don't know that and won't try to speculate, and I'm not going to assume that what happened was his goal.
I'll speculate ... had Gilbert not tripped him, it would have been a clean hit. To assume that he purposely aimed at Ben's knee, you'd have to conclude that he consciously made that decision in a split second after being tripped.

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What is relevant is that he purposefully, and not accidentally, hit Ben, and where he hit him was in an area that results in a penalty and a fine. Period.
I agree that he purposely hit Ben. That's what he's supposed to do. The argument is whether or not he purposely targeted Ben's knee. And I say no. But whether it was intentional or not, if you hit a QB in the knees, it's going to draw a flag. And rightfully so. But if it isn't intentional, is it worthy of a fine? According to you and Goodell, I guess it is.

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By the way, Doug Legursky was fined $10,000 for his clipping penalty, which I'm fine with.
Just out of curiosity ... were you fine with all of Harrison's fines last season?
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Old 09-23-2011, 04:14 AM   #23
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Default Re: offender fined for low hit on big bens knee

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no, I am not, but thanks for your concern. When Gilbert was beat, he extended his leg, and tripped up Brock, which he fell onto Ben's knee. Since he technically did hit the QB below the knee, then yes it should be a penalty, but it should not be a fine.

If this happen to James Harrison, you guys would be in an uproar.
There's a difference in being blocked into the QB and falling,then lunging into him. Plus if you watch it again he wraps his arm around Ben's leg and twists him to the ground.
Shouldn't be a fine? BS. If Harrison did it I'd say it was a dumb move.(James, pay the fine) I said his hit on Massaqua (or however it is spelled) was deserving of a fine.

Ask yourself this. If that were Brady would Brock be fined? I say fined and possibly suspended.
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Old 09-23-2011, 04:20 AM   #24
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Default Re: offender fined for low hit on big bens knee

Dude could have grabbed Ben, but launched himself instead. Fine-worthy. And yes, if Harrison launched himself at a guy's knees like this, fine him too.
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Old 09-23-2011, 04:24 AM   #25
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Default Re: offender fined for low hit on big bens knee

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Originally Posted by Wallace108 View Post
Of course he made an effort to tackle Ben after he was tripped. You can't expect a player to just fall to the ground and stay there until the play is over. And the reason he hit Ben in the knee is because he was tripped and was falling. Had he not been tripped, it would have been a perfectly legal tackle (I'm assuming).


Again, what was he supposed to do ... fall to the ground and lie there until the ref blows the whistle?
Had he not been tripped and just dove at Ben's knees, we wouldn't even be having this discussion. But that isn't what happened. Gilbert got burned on the play and stuck out his leg to trip him. Had he not been tripped, it would have been a clean hit. So at the very least, Gilbert is just as responsible as Brock. Unless, of course, you expect him to just fall to the ground and remain there until the play is over.


I'll speculate ... had Gilbert not tripped him, it would have been a clean hit. To assume that he purposely aimed at Ben's knee, you'd have to conclude that he consciously made that decision in a split second after being tripped.


I agree that he purposely hit Ben. That's what he's supposed to do. The argument is whether or not he purposely targeted Ben's knee. And I say no. But whether it was intentional or not, if you hit a QB in the knees, it's going to draw a flag. And rightfully so. But if it isn't intentional, is it worthy of a fine? According to you and Goodell, I guess it is.


Just out of curiosity ... were you fine with all of Harrison's fines last season?
Regardless of what Gilbert did. Throw a flag his way too. Fine him too. Brock's job is to get the QB on the ground. I agree if he isn't tripped it is probably a clean hit. Here's where I have a problem. If he had enough time to lunge at Ben' knee he had enough time to get up high and make a legal tackle. A lot of non Steeler fans say Harrison is dirty. How often do you see him taken to the ground by no less than a horse collar tackle (that isn't called)? Do you see him lunge at the QB's knees? Oh yeah because no flag was thrown it would be a fine. Of coarse it's James Harrison.
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Old 09-23-2011, 04:30 AM   #26
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Default Re: offender fined for low hit on big bens knee

UGH, I wish Paul Tagliabue was still commissioner.
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Old 09-23-2011, 10:25 AM   #27
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Default Re: offender fined for low hit on big bens knee

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There's a difference in being blocked into the QB and falling,then lunging into him. Plus if you watch it again he wraps his arm around Ben's leg and twists him to the ground.
Shouldn't be a fine? BS. If Harrison did it I'd say it was a dumb move.(James, pay the fine) I said his hit on Massaqua (or however it is spelled) was deserving of a fine.

Ask yourself this. If that were Brady would Brock be fined? I say fined and possibly suspended.
No, it shouldn't be a fine, because it was not intentional that he hit his knee. a player is not going to stop trying on a play because he was tripped, which Gilbert did. Brock also did not twist ben's leg when he crashed into him, he merely just laed there, watch it again. When someone is tripped, you will fall forward.

And if that were Brady, I would make the same argument (which someone was fined for hitting queen Brady the same way this week).
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Old 09-23-2011, 10:30 AM   #28
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Default Re: offender fined for low hit on big bens knee

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Originally Posted by Fire Arians View Post
attempting to hurt and injure is two things.

hurt = you might get your bell run but you can shake it off and get back in the game
injure = can't play for weeks, months, or season's over
fair enough

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when's the last time you seen james dive at someone's knees?
He tackled one of the Titans TEs low the first game of the 2010 season. I remember the Titans fans making a big stink about it.

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he mans up and takes his target head-on. that's not cheap if someone gets injured by that, it just means they aren't tough enough to handle james
I don't recall him ever getting tripped into a QBs legs either.
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Old 09-23-2011, 12:36 PM   #29
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Default Re: offender fined for low hit on big bens knee

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fair enough



He tackled one of the Titans TEs low the first game of the 2010 season. I remember the Titans fans making a big stink about it.



I don't recall him ever getting tripped into a QBs legs either.
I don't remember the hit on the TE, but I'm sure it wasn't when the TE's back was facing him or hitting him on the side of the knee. If the defender is coming head on and low, he should see it coming and get ready for it. I'm sure most TE's are bigger than harrison, and in my years of playing football, I'll tell you it's never wise to try to take a bigger man head-on, you'll get manhandled if you don't get lower than him.

i guess we agree to disagree then, no amount of swaying is going to change my opinion. If I seen harrison do the same thing to a QB, I would say the same thing, that it's dirty and he should get fined also.
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Old 09-23-2011, 12:48 PM   #30
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Default Re: offender fined for low hit on big bens knee

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Of course he made an effort to tackle Ben after he was tripped. You can't expect a player to just fall to the ground and stay there until the play is over. And the reason he hit Ben in the knee is because he was tripped and was falling. Had he not been tripped, it would have been a perfectly legal tackle (I'm assuming).
If a player is going to hit a quarterback in the knees, then you DO expect him to "just fall to the ground and stay there" instead of making an illegal hit. It doesn't matter that he was 'tripped' because he was still under control enough to avoid the collision with the knee after the 'trip'. He is still responsible for where he hits the quarterback. Besides, that 'trip' is unconvincing, anyway. Gilbert whiffs trying to block right when Brock spins the opposite way, so his upper body moves left, but he maintains position with his lower half. It's not like he stuck his leg up 2 feet off the ground.

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Again, what was he supposed to do ... fall to the ground and lie there until the ref blows the whistle?
He's supposed to not hit a quarterback in the knee, regardless of what action he has to take to make that happen.

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Had he not been tripped and just dove at Ben's knees, we wouldn't even be having this discussion. But that isn't what happened. Gilbert got burned on the play and stuck out his leg to trip him. Had he not been tripped, it would have been a clean hit. So at the very least, Gilbert is just as responsible as Brock. Unless, of course, you expect him to just fall to the ground and remain there until the play is over.
Obviously when the league looked at the play, they decided that what happened with Gilbert did not constitute as a trip by the league rule. If it was a trip, he would have been fined too. He was trying to maintain his original position, and he was entitled to do that.

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I'll speculate ... had Gilbert not tripped him, it would have been a clean hit. To assume that he purposely aimed at Ben's knee, you'd have to conclude that he consciously made that decision in a split second after being tripped.
Had he not tripped over Gilbert's leg, is it likely that he doesn't hit the knee? Possibly, but that is irrelevant, because he did trip over Gilbert's leg. It doesn't matter whether a defender consciously decides to hit a player illegally. I'm willing to bet that 99% of all illegal hits are not intentional.

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I agree that he purposely hit Ben. That's what he's supposed to do. The argument is whether or not he purposely targeted Ben's knee. And I say no. But whether it was intentional or not, if you hit a QB in the knees, it's going to draw a flag. And rightfully so. But if it isn't intentional, is it worthy of a fine? According to you and Goodell, I guess it is.
That's not what he's supposed to do when his only chance of actually making contact is an illegal hit. Obviously he hurt his own team by doing what you feel he was supposed to do, so it doesn't sound like it was that great of an idea after all. I'm not arguing whether or not a fine is 'worthy'. I'm saying that by the precedent set over the last few years, that hit was going to merit a fine.

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Just out of curiosity ... were you fine with all of Harrison's fines last season?
I don't recall all of them, but I believe my opinion varied based on the hit.

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No, it shouldn't be a fine, because it was not intentional that he hit his knee. a player is not going to stop trying on a play because he was tripped, which Gilbert did. Brock also did not twist ben's leg when he crashed into him, he merely just laed there, watch it again. When someone is tripped, you will fall forward.
The intent doesn't matter. He was under control enough that he was able to lunge forward off of his knee, rendering the fact that he tripped over somebody's leg irrelevant.
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