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Old 09-28-2011, 09:34 AM   #21
cloppbeast
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Default Re: Benís style? O-lineís Weakness?

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Originally Posted by steelfury02 View Post
This is where I'd like to see some "tale of the tape" and by that I mean taking similar plays by Brady/Manning and putting them up against a similar play by Roethlisberger and seeing where they are different in

1. Reading the defense before snap
2. Reading defense post snap (progressions, pump fakes, etc)
3. Protection
4. Timing and delivery mechanics
I have equal interest. I would love to see that.

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Now, all that said - IMHO - Brady would not be able to make the same unorthodox plays Ben makes when the play breaks down. When receivers are covered, receivers are covered and Brady all of a sudden is very pedestrian against pressure where Ben tends to thrive when flushed.
There's two different kinds of pressure: pressure from offensive line breaking down, and pressure created artifically from blitzes.

Brady is absolutely the best quarterback I've ever seen against the blitz; which explains why he does so well against Pittsburgh. Ben doesn't impress me against blitzes, on the other hand.

However, Ben does well with probably the most porous line by using his brute. We have yet to see Brady play behind such a bad o-line. I think it's safe to say Brady would handle the situation differently than Ben by getting rid of the ball more quickly. Brady uses his brain, Ben uses his brawn.

Would Brady do better than Ben in the same system? Who knows. That's what makes in interesting and fun to talk about.


And let's be fair, Brady has played behind the greatest coach of all time. Ben has had a pretty mediocre OC most of his career. Without Belichick, Brady would never have gotten so good.

Then again, Belicheck couldn't have turned just anybody into such a good quarterback. So while it's unfair, at the same time, you can't really take anything away from Brady either. Right place, right time; the stars alligned with Brady and Belicheck.
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Old 09-28-2011, 09:55 AM   #22
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Default Re: Benís style? O-lineís Weakness?

Ben has never really been able to play QB the way Manning and Brady play. He plays more like a schoolyard football QB style than predetermined, mental QB. It's frustrating when 3/4 passing plays break down and Ben has the ball for more than a few seconds. That's always frustrated me watching the Steelers. Why can't we design pass plays where the ball is out in 2-3 seconds and the line's role is minimized? Why do we only make those plays maybe 1 out of every 4 we throw?

I can't even remember how many times Brady and the Patriots have completely pulled us apart by throwing 8-12yd passes to Welker, Troy Brown, enter Pats receiver here, where the ball is out in a few seconds before our D even has a chance to apply pressure.

That being said, I saw a few throws from Ben this last game that looked absolutely great. A few got away from him, but there were also several that were spot on, Manning/Brady/Rivers style throws. That's good hope. Maybe he hasn't reached his peak yet as a QB. Let's hope.

That deep TD to Wallace showed great promise. They silently communicated that play moments before the snap, and executed it perfectly. That would be great to see that tandem develop more and more this season into a Brady/Moss type of scenario.

/my one post a month :)

Go Steelers!
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Old 09-28-2011, 01:42 PM   #23
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Default Re: Benís style? O-lineís Weakness?

Then again, Belicheck couldn't have turned just anybody into such a good quarterback. So while it's unfair, at the same time, you can't really take anything away from Brady either. Right place, right time; the stars alligned with Brady and Belicheck.

But he did turn just anybody into a good qb. He took a nobody , 6th round draft pick, who was as pitiful looking an athlete as you will find and turned him into the most over rated qb of all time. That offense has always been about the dink and dunk, and dont bring up the Moss years, in the final analysis it was still the dink and dunk that was the bread and butter than also. And if you want to run that offense he is the man for you. I honestly believe that a great many qbs if given the opportunity to learn and grow with the same system as brady has been, thay would be wildly successful also.
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Old 09-29-2011, 12:36 AM   #24
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Default Re: Benís style? O-lineís Weakness?

Sorry, steelerjim, but give credit where it is due. Tom Brady came into that offense as a rookie and got a chance when Bledsoe went down. He did everything right and won the starting job over a QB everyone thought was one of the best in the league. He didn't have any time to "learn and grow" with the system as you say. It also seems when he has a bad day or is injured, the Pats don't win. The Pats go as Brady goes and that is the truth. While I despise them, I respect them.
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Old 09-29-2011, 07:43 AM   #25
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Default Re: Benís style? O-lineís Weakness?

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But he did turn just anybody into a good qb. He took a nobody , 6th round draft pick
What a fallacious thought.

He may have been a 6th round pick, but he wasn't a 6th round talent. These GMs and scouts don't evaluate talent perfectly; they missed when they let Brady slide to the 6th round.

Will you argue Alex Smith was better than Aaron Rodgers? After all, Smith was taken 20 picks earlier.

If we had a draft today with all the NFL players, Tom Brady would probably get picked first, or at least in the top 5.

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That offense has always been about the dink and dunk, and dont bring up the Moss years, in the final analysis it was still the dink and dunk that was the bread and butter than also.
First of all, I disagree. They aren't solely dink and dunk. They certainly dink and dunk against the Steelers because it's the proper game plan against LeBeau's defense. This season he ranks 1st with 9.98 yards per attempt. Last year he ranked 5th with 7.93 yards per attempt.

Further, dinking and dunking isn't as easy as you think it is. Many other quarterbacks come from dink and dunk systems and Tom Brady is the best out of them all. And frankly, I don't care how many times he has to throw the ball in order to work his way down the field as long as his offense scores TDs. Tom Brady scores TDs in the red-zone, unlike your golden boy.

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And if you want to run that offense he is the man for you. I honestly believe that a great many qbs if given the opportunity to learn and grow with the same system as brady has been, thay would be wildly successful also.
The Patriots, ala Belicheck, don't think so. Otherwise they wouldn't pay him so much; they would just find one of those other "great many qbs....... who would be wildly successful also" and save a little money - and we all know about the Patriot's thrift; they always look for ways to save money. They obviously feel Brady has unique talent, making him worth the money. So, sorry, I'll take their word for it over yours.

Last edited by cloppbeast; 09-29-2011 at 08:02 AM.
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Old 09-29-2011, 10:42 AM   #26
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Default Re: Benís style? O-lineís Weakness?

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Fair enough. I would love to at least try it, to see how well it works. This offense does not belong in the NFL at all.



We don't even have a "Steeler Offense" in my opinion. If we want one, we should go get Shanahan. This offense doesn't revolve around running the ball at all. Arians only calls runs because he ought to, not because he wants to. He doesn't want to get yelled at. Running the ball is not a priority. Arian's sole priority throwing deep. It's almost like watching the Raiders in the 70's.
My thoughts exactly, we seem to be very much like the 70's Raiders, difference being the raiders of the 70's had HOF offensive lineman in Shell and Upshaw.
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Old 09-29-2011, 10:57 AM   #27
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Default Re: Benís style? O-lineís Weakness?

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My thoughts exactly, we seem to be very much like the 70's Raiders, difference being the raiders of the 70's had HOF offensive lineman in Shell and Upshaw.
I vaguely recall the Raiders having the ability to run the ball too. They just didn't make it a priority, at least compared to their contemperaries.
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Old 09-29-2011, 01:51 PM   #28
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Default Re: Benís style? O-lineís Weakness?

The Patriots, ala Belicheck, don't think so. Otherwise they wouldn't pay him so much; they would just find one of those other "great many qbs....... who would be wildly successful also" and save a little money - and we all know about the Patriot's thrift; they always look for ways to save money. They obviously feel Brady has unique talent, making him worth the money. So, sorry, I'll take their word for it over yours.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If you look closely I said a qb who could learn and grow with the system, which is what brady has been able to do for 10 years. If belichick sticks around long enough the next qb will put up numbers comparable to brady.
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Old 09-29-2011, 02:48 PM   #29
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Default Re: Benís style? O-lineís Weakness?

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If you look closely I said a qb who could learn and grow with the system, which is what brady has been able to do for 10 years. If belichick sticks around long enough the next qb will put up numbers comparable to brady.
Cassel sat behind Brady for three seasons learning the system before he got to play, and he didn't put up numbers close to Brady's. Cassel isn't a half bad quarterback, either. Cassel threw 21 TDs, 11 INTs, took 41 sacks, lost 5 fumbles, for a rating of 89 with the Patriots. Not bad by any stretch, but not Tom Brady good.
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Old 09-29-2011, 03:17 PM   #30
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Default Re: Benís style? O-lineís Weakness?

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Your posts are entertaining, if nothing else. That one almost made me spit out my dinner on my keyboard....was pretty much spot-on.
here's another one



Cotchery better get his ass on the field and score some points or I'll trade him for an OT - - Coach Killer


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