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Old 12-16-2011, 05:44 PM   #1
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Default Your stand on illegal hits and laying up on defenseless reciever or QB?

Those are truly the only two options, correct? It's not the spearing that's the problem or leading with your helmet, When it comes down to it it's hitting a defenseless offensive player right?

I started looking at the Ryan Clark play where he knocked the snout of of Ed Dickson of the ravens. First thing that was obvious was that it was a penalty. In 2011 that's a penalty. Clark not only left his feet running at full speed with his head down (spearing) but he also hit a defenseless reciever. He also made contact with alot of his shoulder but still spearing nonetheless. Dickson was just turning his head as Clark made contact on what looked to be a streak down the field with safety help over the top. Obviously Clark had help over the top and he's probably the hardest hitting safety in the league. At times I don't think he cares about his own self and safety.

I guess I was wondering how Clark could've hit him more proper. Not left his feet? Even if he doesn't leave his feet and hits him at full speed it's still hitting a defenseless reciever. Even if he doesn't make helmet to helmet contact he's still hitting a defenseless reciever. He timed the play perfectly after reading Flacco and had a full head of steam as he commited to the contact. His timing was impeccable. How could he have played that better?

My brother and I talked about this for a while last night. We came to the conclusion that Clark should've just layed up and that would've negated any penalty, fine or harm to the offensive player. It would've been at least a 30 yard completion. Later that night during the Jacksonville/Atlanta game Matt Ryan tried to fit a pass into a reciever under safety help and as the ball arrived the defender layed up and took the punishment with a helmet to the chest. In my mind a strong safety in the NFL would've layed some wood there that would've make Ronnie Lott proud.

That leads me to believe the only thing you can do is lay up and take the puninshment instead of dishing it out.

What do you guys think?
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Old 12-16-2011, 05:51 PM   #2
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Default Re: Your stand on illegal hits and laying up on defenseless reciever or QB?

clark penalty and fine was bullshit, that was a legal hit. he targeted the ball and led with the shoulder. dickson cringed before the hit, lowering his head, and even then, there was little contact with the face mask of the receiver. I don't know if you can get any more textbook than that play for separating the receiver from the ball. they NEED to let defenders do this. It's not like he went all brandon merriweather on his ass and launched into him with the intent of taking his head off. his target was the football.

the harrison hit on mccoy was illegal all the way and should have been a penalty and fine. what I DON'T agree on is a suspension for a play that happened so quickly, and being james first fineable offense this entire year. the league overreacted on that. suspensions shouldn't happen unless fouls are flagrant, or after the play. suh's stomp or wilfork's eye gouge can't be compared to harrison just trying to make a play
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Old 12-16-2011, 06:01 PM   #3
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Default Re: Your stand on illegal hits and laying up on defenseless reciever or QB?

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clark penalty and fine was bullshit, that was a legal hit. he targeted the ball and led with the shoulder. dickson cringed before the hit, lowering his head, and even then, there was little contact with the face mask of the receiver. I don't know if you can get any more textbook than that play for separating the receiver from the ball. they NEED to let defenders do this. It's not like he went all brandon merriweather on his ass and launched into him with the intent of taking his head off. his target was the football.

the harrison hit on mccoy was illegal all the way and should have been a penalty and fine. what I DON'T agree on is a suspension for a play that happened so quickly, and being james first fineable offense this entire year. the league overreacted on that. suspensions shouldn't happen unless fouls are flagrant, or after the play. suh's stomp or wilfork's eye gouge can't be compared to harrison just trying to make a play
I don't want to argue whether that was an illegal hit or not. He was still hitting a defenseless reciever right? Even with alot of shoulder contact and some helmet to helmet contact he still hit a defenseless reciever. He was making contact at full speed with the intent to seperate man from ball. He did that but even with the most text book tackle at full speed the hit would've still looked like a train wreck. Clark had to do that regardless, Dickson outweighs him by a good bit in size and he wanted to break the play up.

I'm starting to think that no matter how he tackled him, textbook or not, with that much speed and force it's going to look worse than what it may be in full speed or slow mo. It's going to make a ref reach for the yellow out of pure panic for the safety of the reciever.

I truly can't think of what else he could've done any different than laying up. In that situation he takes the pain and doesn't seperate the ball.

Help me. I'm a little confused right now.
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Old 12-16-2011, 07:01 PM   #4
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Default Re: Your stand on illegal hits and laying up on defenseless reciever or QB?

It looked to me as if Clark was attempting to dislodge the ball from the receivers hands, using his helmet. However, that didn't happen, and Clark make some serious contact. Unfortunately, it was an illegal hit of today's standards, even if it was incidental. Which we don't know for sure.
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Old 12-16-2011, 07:31 PM   #5
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Default Re: Your stand on illegal hits and laying up on defenseless reciever or QB?

Incidental helmet to helmet contact is a real grey area. In matters in which it ultimately comes to nothing, you'd think, "why the hell was that a penalty"? But when it's incidental and both guys suffer severe concussions, I'm more liable to think "there should be rules to seriously discourage players from even being in the position to hit helmets in that way (like on a receiver running across the middle of the field). Ultimately, I respect the notion of trying to reduce the number of concussions by penalizing actions that lead to those concussions. But I also feel that it's implemented and enforced haphazardly and inconsistently. I really don't have a conclusive answer as to my opinion on the subject. However, I tend to think the well-being of other people is paramount to the 'sanctity' of the violent nature of a game.
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Old 12-16-2011, 08:45 PM   #6
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Default Re: Your stand on illegal hits and laying up on defenseless reciever or QB?

90% of these hits that used to be appladed would now result in fines and suspensions...

[YOUTUBE]RkS2PTuZeoA [/YOUTUBE]
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Old 12-16-2011, 09:22 PM   #7
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Default Re: Your stand on illegal hits and laying up on defenseless reciever or QB?

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90% of these hits that used to be appladed would now result in fines and suspensions...

[YOUTUBE]RkS2PTuZeoA [/YOUTUBE]
I got a lot of enjoyment out of that video. Goodell needs to die. Now.
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Old 12-16-2011, 11:41 PM   #8
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Default Re: Your stand on illegal hits and laying up on defenseless reciever or QB?

THATS FOOTBALL!!! Loved the vid! Seriously, the No Fun League is in jeapordy of losing alot of fans! Just put all QBs in bright orange jerseys and call them touch only!
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Old 12-17-2011, 12:43 AM   #9
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Default Re: Your stand on illegal hits and laying up on defenseless reciever or QB?

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THATS FOOTBALL!!! Loved the vid! Seriously, the No Fun League is in jeapordy of losing alot of fans! Just put all QBs in bright orange jerseys and call them touch only!
I don't see today's players changing the way they play very much, to be honest. Even the next generation of players will likely be in hot water, because I just don't see a complete overhaul of the way football is played working out. Even College is tougher and more lenient right now.

The fines and suspensions will just keep coming and coming, and sooner or later, some changes will be made. I hope football seen in that video makes a long term appearance, and soon.
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Old 12-17-2011, 06:18 AM   #10
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Default Re: Your stand on illegal hits and laying up on defenseless reciever or QB?

2008 was when I played my last play for Jacksonville U. Throughout high school and the 2 years I played college ball you were taught to hit with your head to the opposing players head and wrap up. It was the most sure way to tackle and the only way coaches would be happy. I didn't play any defense in college but I was a fullback that got 10+ carries a game and I have taken my fair share of these hits Nd can personally attest to the fact that those hits don't worry you. It's when you take a hit to the knees and lose feeling in your legs is when you worry about your wellbeing.
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