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Old 01-23-2012, 10:09 AM   #21
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Default Re: Rooney wants old Steelers offense

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exactly - balance for the sake of balance means nothing - but some innovation, creativity and less predictability means quite a lot.

"Old Steelers football" is long dead and in no way do I want that back. Slinging it 40 to 50 times a game doesn't work consistently and especially in the playoffs either. Sure you can beat a really awful defense that way - but you are ripe for the pickin (and your QB a beatin) if you think you can do that against playoff defenses.

Not saying I hate Bruce Arians as a person - but Ben covered up for him quite a bit IMHO and regardless of what anyone thinks or if they agree - that is and will be his legacy.
They were saying old Steeler football is dead when we won a Superbowl with it too. Old Steeler football means always having the ability to pound the rock, and knowing when not to. But the fact of the matter is that the diva won't be here forever, and he needs to shut his mouth and hand the ball off when he's told to, and throw it when he's told to, and make magic when the time comes. Chuck Noll had the testosterone to explain that to Bradshaw by splintering his rear end. Tomlin, not so much.
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Old 01-23-2012, 11:00 AM   #22
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Default Re: Rooney wants old Steelers offense

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They were saying old Steeler football is dead when we won a Superbowl with it too. Old Steeler football means always having the ability to pound the rock, and knowing when not to. But the fact of the matter is that the diva won't be here forever, and he needs to shut his mouth and hand the ball off when he's told to, and throw it when he's told to, and make magic when the time comes. Chuck Noll had the testosterone to explain that to Bradshaw by splintering his rear end. Tomlin, not so much.
Maybe in the beginning Noll laid down the law to Bradshaw but as time went by, Bradshaw began to run his own show quite often.

I recall one game in particular against Cincy where we had the ball in the Red Zone and needed a TD to win and Noll specifically sent in a running play. When Bradshaw saw the defense however, he checked off to a pass and threw a TD and won the game. Immediately afterward, when Bradshaw trotted to the sideline, Noll grabbed Bradshaw's grill and started screaming at him, but it had to be hard to yell at a guy who just won the game for you.

I think Ben is a lot like Bradshaw in that he goes with his gut when it comes to certain situations and I think that even though that may occasionally backfire, I'd rather he be allowed to do that than to simply "shut his mouth and hand the ball off when he's told to, and throw it when he's told to" because that would be like hitching a thoroughbred to a milk wagon.

The "magic" you mention can only happen if Ben is allowed to improvise when he thinks the time is right. So in that regard, I wouldn't try to make him "do what he's told" as much as I'd try to make him more aware of what's going on around him. I'd try to teach him that there's often a difference between doing something that satisfies his ego and doing something that will help the team and the only real coaching that's necessary would be to develop the wisdom to know the difference between the two

Ben will never be a "worker bee" and to think that any coach can make him into one is ridiculous.

A good coach will recognize this and work with it instead of against it by tempering Ben's need to achieve with a better understanding of the realities of a given situation. He can still allow Ben the freedom to trust his instincts, but to do so in a more realistic way and to make him understand that he's not Superman nor does he need to be on every play. But if a coach were to step in now to try to get a guy like Ben - especially after the success he's had - to toe some line and "follow orders" would be a colossal waste of everyone's time.
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Old 01-23-2012, 11:11 AM   #23
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Default Re: Rooney wants old Steelers offense

you have to be able to run the ball well to score in the red zone. thats been plaguing us ever since arians took over
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Old 01-23-2012, 11:24 AM   #24
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Default Re: Rooney wants old Steelers offense

I think what most could agree on is that the next O-coordinator couldn't be worse from a situational standpoint - and so the change as of now is acceptable. What none of us want to see is a pissy Ben and the new guy butting heads. My answer to that situation would be that Ben would then still have zero clue what it means to be a franchise QB - sometimes your ego has to be 2nd to what is perceived to be best for the team.

Fullback or no fullback - the Steelers aren't going to become unpredictable with a line that is injured / revolving every single week. A healthy team along with maturing receivers will help quite a bit.
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Old 01-23-2012, 11:44 AM   #25
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Default Re: Rooney wants old Steelers offense

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Fullback or no fullback - the Steelers aren't going to become unpredictable with a line that is injured / revolving every single week. A healthy team along with maturing receivers will help quite a bit.
Congratulations!

That has to be the most sensible thing that anyone's said about this.
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Old 01-23-2012, 12:19 PM   #26
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Default Re: Rooney wants old Steelers offense

haha - thanks - although I usually have knee jerk reactions with the lot of em'

Although I am happy to see Arians go - I also have to equally weigh the injuries

The healthy Steelers that beat the Titans, Pats, Bengals > Pats, Giants - that is the only thing that brings me comfort for next season.
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Old 01-23-2012, 12:27 PM   #27
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Default Re: Rooney wants old Steelers offense

A guy could take "steelers football" as imposing our will on the other team whether it be running or passing. Not the finesse BS that arians brought to the field.
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Old 01-23-2012, 01:25 PM   #28
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Default Re: Rooney wants old Steelers offense

Little revisionist history, if the Steelers could run in Super Bowl 43, Steelers blow out the Cardinals. And it wasnt just that game, they were pathetic on 3rd and 1s all year. It just so happen that it almost cost them in the biggest game of the year. They were on the half yard line and Tomlin decided to kick a FG.

Last year, Steelers had a good balance. Mendenahall had his best year and Big Ben was relatively healthy all year. Things would have been different had the Steelers held on in the Baltimore game. That game ended up costing the Steelers big time.
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Old 01-23-2012, 01:54 PM   #29
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Default Re: Rooney wants old Steelers offense

Why not? The "New" Offense wasn't working. Extremely Pass-Heavy but the run game suffered and schizophrenic offensive production

By "Old" Offense I don't think Rooney necessarily means "3 Yards and a cloud of dust". He wants an balanced Offense with restrained passing (Not heaving up Deep Balls every single drive), better routes (No bubble screens, more slants), and more consistent emphasis on an effective run game (With a Fullback).

I think he means the Offense as what it was in 2004/2005. Didn't get big plays, but scored TD's more often, moved the ball more effectively, was more consistent, and didn't stall in the Red Zone.

Ben's Gutsy Heroics and a legendary Steelers Defense won Super Bowl XLIII, our Offense was pathetic all that year and Short yardage was a joke. It was even worse in 2009.

Last edited by Edman; 01-23-2012 at 02:08 PM.
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Old 01-23-2012, 03:08 PM   #30
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Default Re: Rooney wants old Steelers offense

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Maybe in the beginning Noll laid down the law to Bradshaw but as time went by, Bradshaw began to run his own show quite often.

I recall one game in particular against Cincy where we had the ball in the Red Zone and needed a TD to win and Noll specifically sent in a running play. When Bradshaw saw the defense however, he checked off to a pass and threw a TD and won the game. Immediately afterward, when Bradshaw trotted to the sideline, Noll grabbed Bradshaw's grill and started screaming at him, but it had to be hard to yell at a guy who just won the game for you.

I think Ben is a lot like Bradshaw in that he goes with his gut when it comes to certain situations and I think that even though that may occasionally backfire, I'd rather he be allowed to do that than to simply "shut his mouth and hand the ball off when he's told to, and throw it when he's told to" because that would be like hitching a thoroughbred to a milk wagon.

The "magic" you mention can only happen if Ben is allowed to improvise when he thinks the time is right. So in that regard, I wouldn't try to make him "do what he's told" as much as I'd try to make him more aware of what's going on around him. I'd try to teach him that there's often a difference between doing something that satisfies his ego and doing something that will help the team and the only real coaching that's necessary would be to develop the wisdom to know the difference between the two

Ben will never be a "worker bee" and to think that any coach can make him into one is ridiculous.

A good coach will recognize this and work with it instead of against it by tempering Ben's need to achieve with a better understanding of the realities of a given situation. He can still allow Ben the freedom to trust his instincts, but to do so in a more realistic way and to make him understand that he's not Superman nor does he need to be on every play. But if a coach were to step in now to try to get a guy like Ben - especially after the success he's had - to toe some line and "follow orders" would be a colossal waste of everyone's time.
Bradshaw called his own plays, and Noll occasionally sent one in, and there's a difference between a legitimate audible--"Coach thought they'd do this, but they're doing this instead" and "I don't like running the football, so I won't." I sort of agree with you about the rest. I just think that Ben is a one trick pony who everyone treats like a thoroughbred so he'll do his one trick, and should have already had the facts of life explained to him, and that he still needs to have to play team ball with a more structured offense, not completely rigid, just more structured, and I don't think he'll like even that. Look at Mark Brunnell, when he was in Jacksonville, the guy was better at improvising than BR is even capable of comprehending, but he started the play that was called, or legitimately audibled to a better one for the defense that was showing. And Coughlin held him accountable every single time he audibled, but that was over the top. And it's also the reverse philosophy of what you would think. Brunnell often audibled into running plays, because Coughlin was a believer in every offensive play should end in a touchdown, and Brunnell understood the game. BR does not.
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