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Old 01-27-2012, 07:45 AM   #51
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Default Re: But is it Too Late to Fix Ben ?!

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Yeah, but don't forget he rode the defense's back every time.



Actually, I jest. I agree with you 110%. The dude may not do it all pretty like Brady and put up HUGE numbers like the other fantasy princesses, he's a gamer and just the type of guy I enjoy watching/having on our team. AND, he's numbers ARE NOT THAT BAD. Look at Ws and Ls, YPA/YPC, career QB rating, etc... Sure, he looked slow at the end of the year HE COULD BARELY WALK! (You forgot drama queen, btw )

If that's dogshit...

I agree that with an OC that can figure out a better play in the red zone than "Everyone try to get open while Ben gets chased around the pocket" then the team is going to be dangerous!


What they should do is park some cars on the field like they used to do at Three Rivers.
Then Ben can just tell a receiver to "Cut left at the red Chevy" like Bradshaw used to do.
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Old 01-27-2012, 08:36 PM   #52
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Default Re: But is it Too Late to Fix Ben ?!

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Myth #1 We scored more under Cowher when we ran the ball.
This is False we scored on avg less than we have with Tomlin as coach, As a matter of fact the scoring differential is less for Cowher than Tomlin.

Myth #2 But we won more when we ran. False again Tomlins win pct is higher than Cowhers even if you factor in his best rushing teams and his two SuperBowl teams. Matter of fact his first SuperBowl we were more a passing team with Neil O'Donnell as QB. And the one he won had a second year QB lead the team through three road games with these kind of numbers 49-72 68% 7TD 1 INT


Im not sure your main point I assume its that Tomlins way is better then cowhers.. one fact is Cowher did it for 15 years and during that time our Steelers had the most wins in football.. Dont get me wrong I agree with you Tomlin is off to a good start but lets not be stupid and compare him to Bill Cowher just yet... Cowher and Noll are HOF coaches... If Tomlin cont to win he will join them.. I hope he does thats for sure
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Old 01-27-2012, 08:43 PM   #53
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Default Re: But is it Too Late to Fix Ben ?!

One last point.. Cowher took a team that had not won or been a real superbowl contender since 83 -84 basically about 6 0r 7 years of average to below average football... the next year he won the divison and of course was in AFC championship game and superbowl within the first 4 years... pretty impressive

Tomlin took over IMO one of the best talented teams in the history of football with a Franchise QB... very few Coaches ever step into something like this.. Two come to my mind.. Barry Switzer and George Siefort

Really think about it James Harrison, Arron Smith, Big Snack, Hines Ward, the BUS ( yes he was winding down ) Troy Pol, Big BEN...etc... etc... hell there are 3 HOF on this list at least... james Farrior Ike Taylor should get mentioned....

anyway how many coaches in history have taken over a team like this... Again dont get me wrong the people he is adding to it look to be in the next great line of Steelers.. So I agree Tomlin is on his way to greatness but no doubt about it Cowher had to rebuild a legecy... ground up... Tomlin just needed to tweak it a bit and get out the way dont screw it up so to speak
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Old 01-27-2012, 10:38 PM   #54
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Default Re: But is it Too Late to Fix Ben ?!

I agree Cowher did great, but a couple of counter points. Tomlin inherited a great team after what I would call a fluke year in 2006 that finished 8-8. Since then Tomlin's worst year was 9-7 where the defense played less than sterling. Cowher's team matched Tomlin's worst year or finished even worse 6 times in his 15 yr tenure. Cowher preached defense, much as we do today. Cowher believed in ball control, much like we did this past season. Cowher liked the power running game, we did not have that. Yet some on this board yearn for good ole Cowher days and while it produced "mostly" winning seasons, we came up short 13 out of 14 times advancing to the SuperBowl. Only the year O'Donnell played great did we make it to the show. Along come Ben and that all changes, sure we have great defenses nearly every year but Ben is the X factor come playoff times. Is he infallible ,no. After the Packers run last year and their near perfect regular season some thought Rodgers would lead them to the Championship again. It did not happen, we are unrealistic in expectations from not just our team but Ben also. I for one like our chances if we can stay healthy and get some help on the Line along with one more stud on defense. BTW I think O'Donnell takes alot of heat from our SuperBowl loss but before Ben came along he was the Best QB we had since TB.

Post Script: If Tomlin remains our Coach for an extended number of years I believe he will have some less than stellar years also. Longevity in coaching will catch up to you eventually.
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Old 01-27-2012, 11:06 PM   #55
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Default Re: But is it Too Late to Fix Ben ?!

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I agree Cowher did great, but a couple of counter points. Tomlin inherited a great team after what I would call a fluke year in 2006 that finished 8-8. Since then Tomlin's worst year was 9-7 where the defense played less than sterling. Cowher's team matched Tomlin's worst year or finished even worse 6 times in his 15 yr tenure. Cowher preached defense, much as we do today. Cowher believed in ball control, much like we did this past season. Cowher liked the power running game, we did not have that. Yet some on this board yearn for good ole Cowher days and while it produced "mostly" winning seasons, we came up short 13 out of 14 times advancing to the SuperBowl. Only the year O'Donnell played great did we make it to the show. Along come Ben and that all changes, sure we have great defenses nearly every year but Ben is the X factor come playoff times. Is he infallible ,no. After the Packers run last year and their near perfect regular season some thought Rodgers would lead them to the Championship again. It did not happen, we are unrealistic in expectations from not just our team but Ben also. I for one like our chances if we can stay healthy and get some help on the Line along with one more stud on defense. BTW I think O'Donnell takes alot of heat from our SuperBowl loss but before Ben came along he was the Best QB we had since TB.

Post Script: If Tomlin remains our Coach for an extended number of years I believe he will have some less than stellar years also. Longevity in coaching will catch up to you eventually.


I agree with alot of your points.. and I agree Tomlin will have a few off years.. I agree he looks like he can follow in the footsteps of Cowher and Noll and win games... but While I agree Tomlin seems to get a bad rap at times on some boards Cowher does as well... Bill Cowher is a HOF coach who under Cowher we had more wins than anyone in football.. The fact that just about every year under Cowher we made the playoffs and had a shot to go to the superbowl is wonderful.. If Tomlin can do that for us then Im sure most will respect him when its all said and done.l

I guess my main point when I debate on the mess boards about this is simple.. Tomlin is far to young in this thing to compare him to Cohwers, or Parcells, Nolls etc... Yes Bill only got the one super bowl Victory but he belongs on the list with the greats.. most experts Ive heard put him there.. Tomlin needs years to prove he belongs on the list..

The one thing I do disagree with you about is just how great of a turn around Cowher had to do with his team.. where as Tomlin had a Superbowl Team.. I still say just about any coach in football could have won the first couple of years with our Steelers... I do also give Tomlin Credit because his guys are now blending in and taking over and we still look great.. lets hope we keep it up and after the next twelve n four season maybe we can go into the playoffs a little more healthy...

One win over the ravens or maybe Texans or 9ers and I very well could have been playing the G men this week a match up I think we could have won... not to mention If we would have hosted AFC champ game I had 40 Yard line tickets Row A upper deck... very sweet seat I was licking my chops to have

oh well lets do it next year...Time to start talking about Free Agents and Draft IMO
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Old 01-27-2012, 11:46 PM   #56
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Default Re: But is it Too Late to Fix Ben ?!

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Im not sure your main point I assume its that Tomlins way is better then cowhers.. one fact is Cowher did it for 15 years and during that time our Steelers had the most wins in football.. Dont get me wrong I agree with you Tomlin is off to a good start but lets not be stupid and compare him to Bill Cowher just yet... Cowher and Noll are HOF coaches... If Tomlin cont to win he will join them.. I hope he does thats for sure
I was no big fan of Cowher.

With him it was basically get a lead, then play Martyball , settle for FG's and hope the defense can hold on.

The thing I remember most and what defines Cowher for me is when Ben, his second-year QB said to him in the middle of the SB, "Coach let's play to win, let's not play not to lose"

When a second year QB says something like that, then your coaching style is both questionable and noticeable.
Frankly, between that and his pet project -- Kordell, I really couldn't wait for Cowher to go.
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Old 01-28-2012, 06:42 AM   #57
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Default Re: But is it Too Late to Fix Ben ?!

Hey I defended Cowher many times during his tenure as coach. I too was a fan of tough football. But over time I realized we needed more than defense and a powerful back to get over the hump. During Bens first year you could see that even though the Coaching staff limited him somewhat what kind of potential he had. Then the next year during that late season run and through the playoffs they let him loose more and the rest is history. Tomlin has takin heat now and he is winning, just imagine how it will be when he has his first losing record.
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Old 01-28-2012, 07:10 AM   #58
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Default Re: But is it Too Late to Fix Ben ?!

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Hey I defended Cowher many times during his tenure as coach. I too was a fan of tough football. But over time I realized we needed more than defense and a powerful back to get over the hump. During Bens first year you could see that even though the Coaching staff limited him somewhat what kind of potential he had. Then the next year during that late season run and through the playoffs they let him loose more and the rest is history. Tomlin has takin heat now and he is winning, just imagine how it will be when he has his first losing record.
Because every drunk yinzer in the stands and watching television can see that the Steelers are winning in spite of coaching decisions that high school players would get right.
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Old 01-28-2012, 07:23 AM   #59
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Default Re: But is it Too Late to Fix Ben ?!

Drunk Yinzers remember what they want, its like the pretty girls they tell their buddies they hooked up with. When they sober up they turn out to be Rosie O'Donnells.
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Old 01-28-2012, 07:44 AM   #60
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Default Re: But is it Too Late to Fix Ben ?!

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Hey I defended Cowher many times during his tenure as coach. I too was a fan of tough football. But over time I realized we needed more than defense and a powerful back to get over the hump. During Bens first year you could see that even though the Coaching staff limited him somewhat what kind of potential he had. Then the next year during that late season run and through the playoffs they let him loose more and the rest is history. Tomlin has takin heat now and he is winning, just imagine how it will be when he has his first losing record.
I hope we never see that day...
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