You tell me.

[Ricco Suavez]

SteelerFreak I agree if we score more we are in a BETTER position to win come playoff time. But we had so many walking wounded at the end I just have to believe it was not in the cards for us this year. Look a t the Giants they were injured most of the year and now they are helathy and hot at the right time. We do not know what could of happened but between the injuries, an impotent scoring offense, and the lack of game changing turnovers this team may have gone as far as they were able this year.

[Atlanta Dan]

Originally Posted by FanSince72

And once again, in the 5 seasons under Arians:

55-25 in the regular season
5-3 in the playoffs
2 trips to the Super Bowl
1 Super Bowl win

Yeah, I guess that pretty much sucks.

I watched all the games for the past 5 seasons - using your logic i guess I also should claim credit for the record

Or maybe the record is due to Charlie Batch being the backup QB

[Atlanta Dan]

Originally Posted by DanRooney

Justin Hartwig with Steelers:

21-11 regular season
3-0 playoffs
1 Super Bowl

Why did we get rid of him for Pouncey?

Art Rooney did not want Hartwig to get credit then owner thought should only go to the Rooney family so Hartwig was unfairly run off

[zcoop]

I personally think it's obvious as to why Tomlin is under constant attack. I just hope that he contunues to do his job and not let the petty BS get to him.

[StainlessStill]

Originally Posted by DanRooney

Justin Hartwig with Steelers:

21-11 regular season
3-0 playoffs
1 Super Bowl

Why did we get rid of him for Pouncey?

LOL, nice comeback. Hartwig was also responsible for that Phantom holding call too that put us in the predicament in XLIII as well.

[FanSince72]

I have no agenda here.

All I'm pointing out is that numbers can be used to support or attack any position one may have and it's the number one reason why I don't care about statistics.
Someone pulls out some statistics that make Arians look bad, others (like me) can scrounge up some statistics that make him look good.

Actually, my favorite "statistics argument" around here is the "#1 Defense" argument that everyone falls back on so that they don't have to actually look hard at LeBeau.
You can hold onto that stat all you want, but anyone who really thinks we actually had a defense that was REALLY a number one defense needs to have their head examined.

But the "statistics" say it's true, so no one has to go beyond that.

The word, "Statistics" is just "bullshit" with an extra syllable.

[Steelerfreak58]

Originally Posted by Ricco Suavez

SteelerFreak I agree if we score more we are in a BETTER position to win come playoff time. But we had so many walking wounded at the end I just have to believe it was not in the cards for us this year. Look a t the Giants they were injured most of the year and now they are helathy and hot at the right time. We do not know what could of happened but between the injuries, an impotent scoring offense, and the lack of game changing turnovers this team may have gone as far as they were able this year.

Very true we limped into the playoffs. Just goes to show you the strength of this team. Healthy the Steelers will be unbeatable next year.

[ricardisimo]

Originally Posted by FanSince72

I have no agenda here.

All I'm pointing out is that numbers can be used to support or attack any position one may have and it's the number one reason why I don't care about statistics.
Someone pulls out some statistics that make Arians look bad, others (like me) can scrounge up some statistics that make him look good.

Actually, my favorite "statistics argument" around here is the "#1 Defense" argument that everyone falls back on so that they don't have to actually look hard at LeBeau.
You can hold onto that stat all you want, but anyone who really thinks we actually had a defense that was REALLY a number one defense needs to have their head examined.

But the "statistics" say it's true, so no one has to go beyond that.

The word, "Statistics" is just "bullshit" with an extra syllable.

No, it's pretty clear whose head needs shrunk. I suspect, as you have stated elsewhere, that you are just a professional pot-stirrer, in which case we're all just wasting our time here. Pretending for a moment that we're not just pissing in the wind...

You keep stating this opinion of yours regarding Dick Lebeau and this year's defense, and stating it as if it is fact. And yet whenever pressed, you hit us with rhetorical zingers like "Look, I'm probably not explaining myself as well as I could and right now I really don't feel like trying to figure that out." You have this bizarre contention that stats can be made to say anything, they're just there to lie to us, as if someone could invert this year's rankings, and easily make the case that Green Bay and New England were really the best defenses, while Pittsburgh and the Texans just flat-out sucked. These sorts of claims suggest that you are delusional, and should indeed get your head examined.

I'll ask you for the fourteenth time: other than the second Ravens game, which regular season game did our "paper defense" shit the bed, or give away a game that the offense had won for us? And for the fortieth time that I've asked you and everyone else on this board: Can you find me a two- or three-game stretch anywhere in Arians' tenure where the offense was dominant? I could possibly even find two games that Ray Sherman or Kevin Gilbride put together that were truly solid. Arians? No.

[4xSBChamps]

Originally Posted by Ricco Suavez

Thanks Dan for that insightful post.

[FanSince72]

Originally Posted by ricardisimo

No, it's pretty clear whose head needs shrunk. I suspect, as you have stated elsewhere, that you are just a professional pot-stirrer, in which case we're all just wasting our time here. Pretending for a moment that we're not just pissing in the wind...

You keep stating this opinion of yours regarding Dick Lebeau and this year's defense, and stating it as if it is fact. And yet whenever pressed, you hit us with rhetorical zingers like "Look, I'm probably not explaining myself as well as I could and right now I really don't feel like trying to figure that out." You have this bizarre contention that stats can be made to say anything, they're just there to lie to us, as if someone could invert this year's rankings, and easily make the case that Green Bay and New England were really the best defenses, while Pittsburgh and the Texans just flat-out sucked. These sorts of claims suggest that you are delusional, and should indeed get your head examined.

I'll ask you for the fourteenth time: other than the second Ravens game, which regular season game did our "paper defense" shit the bed, or give away a game that the offense had won for us? And for the fortieth time that I've asked you and everyone else on this board: Can you find me a two- or three-game stretch anywhere in Arians' tenure where the offense was dominant? I could possibly even find two games that Ray Sherman or Kevin Gilbride put together that were truly solid. Arians? No.

It's not that we "give the game away" but rather that we never (lately - in the last couple of seasons) seem to put the game away and we seem to allow way too many teams to "hang around".

My personal beef with this defense is third down. There was a time when we'd have a team in a third and long situation and I'd be sure that we'd be getting the ball back very soon. But lately, third and long seems to be a lucky charm for other teams and I can't count how many times, when a team needs 10 or 11 yards, we let them gain 11 or 12. It's gotten to the point where whenever I see a third and long, I just roll my eyes and think, "Oh well, maybe we can stop them on the next series".

The defense isn't bad, it's just sloppy and it seems to allow teams to continue when that didn't happen in the past (or at least not nearly as much). It's sort of like a slow leak rather than a gaping hole and through the course of a game we seem to be defending against red zone or near red zone situations far more often than we should. This doesn't always end up with other teams scoring TD's, but rather nibbling away with FG's or by simply running the clock and it's turned way too many games that we should have put away into late-game nail-biters.

Staistically (my favorite word) we don't turn up looking bad, but functionally we have the tendency to keep another team's hopes alive and that eventually comes back to haunt us. We have a secondary that I feel is basically talented, but seems to be out of position more often than it should be for a #1 defense. Troy, for example, is often shown arriving at a ballcarrier with great speed and from seemingly out of nowhere and the talking heads always marvel at his quickness, but my question is always: "Why was he so far out of position in the first place?"

I can't point to any specific thing or specific person or package but rather I just see the defense as a whole playing sloppy and allowing other teams to do things that I believe we're more than capable of preventing. I think this whole Dick LeBeau / #1 Defense thing serves as a cover of sorts and that we tend to see ourselves as great when we're really just "OK".

Whether LeBeau needs to leave or not is debatable, but I think that his defense needs to be scrutinized at least as much as Arians' offense and that he's being given a pass because of his godlike status. If we're in the process of taking a hard look at things, I think we need to drop this #1 Defense crap and pop the hood on that defense and take a serious look around because that #1 status is - in my opinion - more smoke and mirrors than real.