5 accidentally shot at gun shows in North Carolina, Ohio, Indiana

[SCMom]

Originally Posted by Vis

My comment was hypothetical yours was about real wounded people you don't give a shit about. Or, as you put, are not worth talking about.

But moving on to you not believing that anyone should be able to carry anywhere - tell me specifically the restrictions and limitation you endorse. Who can carry and who can't? Where is it ok and where is it not? Who decides and how is it enforced?

No, you assume I don't give a shit. I care that those people were injured...but let's be real. They were accidents they brought about in their own stupidity. And they aren't all that common.

You want a hypothetical? Why don't you care about the hundreds that die or are maimed in car accidents daily? Many at the hands of drunk drivers? Why do we continue to allow bars and clubs to be legal? Why are there cars that are even made to go double the speed limit? Oh shit, none of that is hypothetical... sorry, that was my strawman.

This serves no point though...neither of us is unfeeling. I'm sure we both care about human life...I just don't think ignoring realistic options is the way to go.

Obviously convicted felons and the mentally ill should not be allowed to own firearms. It's not up to me to say where is ok and where is not ok. If you have a private business, and you don't want people carrying firearms, that's your right. I think schools should have properly trained armed guards, if their community feels it necessary. People in their local communities should decide, for the most part, how these laws are enforced (when not dealing with something like national background checks).

The problems we have now stem from the government’s inability to actually monitor the practices they created.

The only thing I would really change is better enforcement of the laws already in place. Although I would add that anyone looking to buy a gun should have to list who all lives in the household, and if they are convicted felons, or mentally ill (I wouldn't even be opposed to household background checks). I would reinstate the mandatory 7 day waiting period. I know checks can be done at lightening speed now...but there's nothing anyone needs a gun for that they can't wait a few days. It allows a cooling off period.

I would put stricter regulations and fines on gun stores who don't properly follow the laws. It's too easy to get an FFL nowadays, and these regulations would do away with little po-dunk shops that might sneak under the radar.

Concealed Carry classes are a joke. Finding a reputable one in my area was not easy. If you want to properly teach people how to safely use a firearm, then start having proper trainers. All gun owners will benefit from this and appreciate it. I'd go as far to say that you should have to take these classes just to own a gun. And I think you should have to update your training every 1-4 years.

[Vis]

I'll give you mine.

Gun ownership needs a license. The license requires real training and proof of competency. There would be different levels for different types of of weapons, like CDLs as a parallel. Some weapons would have need requirements similar to Israeli requirements.

Transferring ownership between private individuals requires both to have the appropriate license and would require documentation similar to selling a car.

I would have special shipping requirements.

If you ever accidentally discharge a weapon in public, you lose you license forever to go with a hefty fine. Any damage done is your responsibility. You pay for the property damage. You pay for medical expenses, pain and suffering and lifetime disabilities, or the wrongful death. No defense, this is pure strict liability.

Criminally, if you cause death or serious bodily injury with a firearm, it's a felony. Accident is no defense. Obviously self defense still is but we're talking about unintentional firing here.

Carrying a firearm under the influence is a felony.

Carrying weapons on private property, including all businesses, stores, malls, etc.. is up to the ownership but it must be posted if it is ok. No posting means it's restricted.

I'm a gun owner and none of these would change a thing about my use.

[SCMom]

Originally Posted by Vis

I'll give you mine.

Gun ownership needs a license. The license requires real training and proof of competency. There would be different levels for different types of of weapons, like CDLs as a parallel. Some weapons would have need requirements similar to Israeli requirements.

That can be realistically done...I think all people should have to at least get permits. I'm all for training and proof of competency. Competent trainers are a must too. You wouldn't believe the level of ignorance that abounds in these classes. There are already different levels for different types of weapons (full auto are class III), but I understand the need to expand that. This is a workable solution, IMO.

Transferring ownership between private individuals requires both to have the appropriate license and would require documentation similar to selling a car.

Completely agree. This is the "gun show" loophole. It applies to flea markets and people's basements as well. You only have to "occasionally" sell weapons to not have to do a background check or have proper paperwork. Everybody and their mothers should say "What the hell is this crap!?!"

I would have special shipping requirements.

I believe there already are in most cases? I could be wrong, but I'm not sure exactly what you mean in this regard.

If you ever accidentally discharge a weapon in public, you lose you license forever to go with a hefty fine. Any damage done is your responsibility. You pay for the property damage. You pay for medical expenses, pain and suffering and lifetime disabilities, or the wrongful death. No defense, this is pure strict liability.

Criminally, if you cause death or serious bodily injury with a firearm, it's a felony. Accident is no defense. Obviously self defense still is but we're talking about unintentional firing here.

Most of this I would leave open to local laws. It's not the federal gov'ts job to police everyone. That's why we have local politicians and law enforcement. That's not to say that I don't completely disagree with you, but that's something that should be done on a local level.

Carrying a firearm under the influence is a felony.

Again, this should be left up to local/state law enforcement, like most other laws.

Carrying weapons on private property, including all businesses, stores, malls, etc.. is up to the ownership but it must be posted if it is ok. No posting means it's restricted.

I don't see why the posting matters that much, but ok. Criminals will just know whether or not to look for a sign still lol.

[Vis]

Shipping - done by approved carriers with bonded employees. Legal guns becoming street guns is a problem. They shouldn't be shipped in the same truck as the Amazon delivery.

The laws I propose are state laws but these are the ones I would say a minimum for every state. For PA, would you want them?

[Vis]

Originally Posted by SCMom

That can be realistically done...I think all people should have to at least get permits. I'm all for training and proof of competency. Competent trainers are a must too. You wouldn't believe the level of ignorance that abounds in these classes. There are already different levels for different types of weapons (full auto are class III), but I understand the need to expand that. This is a workable solution, IMO.



Completely agree. This is the "gun show" loophole. It applies to flea markets and people's basements as well. You only have to "occasionally" sell weapons to not have to do a background check or have proper paperwork. Everybody and their mothers should say "What the hell is this crap!?!"



I believe there already are in most cases? I could be wrong, but I'm not sure exactly what you mean in this regard.



Most of this I would leave open to local laws. It's not the federal gov'ts job to police everyone. That's why we have local politicians and law enforcement. That's not to say that I don't completely disagree with you, but that's something that should be done on a local level.



Again, this should be left up to local/state law enforcement, like most other laws.



I don't see why the posting matters that much, but ok. Criminals will just know whether or not to look for a sign still lol.

Posting lets customers know. I'm not going into a bar that allows guns.

[SCMom]

Originally Posted by Vis

Shipping - done by approved carriers with bonded employees. Legal guns becoming street guns is a problem. They shouldn't be shipped in the same truck as the Amazon delivery.

The laws I propose are state laws but these are the ones I would say a minimum for every state. For PA, would you want them?

Yeah, I can get behind the shipping.

Making those laws you mentioned minimum for every state would require federal enforcement of state laws, so I'm not for it in that respect.

As for PA? Not necessarily to the degree you are mentioning. There is currently no law whatsoever against being drunk and carrying a firearm. I would be remiss to make it a felony. I could see a DA going completely overboard with the law. I think it should be more like VA's laws, where if you are arrested for being drunk, and have a firearm, it's a misdemeanor, you have your license and permit stripped from you (along with a hefty fine), and you cannot apply for another one for at least 5 years. I think that would deter a lot of action.

I can agree with the accidental shooting laws. It should always be made a personal responsibility issue.

[SCMom]

Originally Posted by Vis

Posting lets customers know. I'm not going into a bar that allows guns.

Right, I guess I get that. I just don't see it as that big of a deal to flip it the other way. If a place that doesn't allow guns has a sign, and anywhere that doesn't have a sign it's assumed that it's legal to carry, then people would just look for a sign still to know the difference. Have it either way you want, it'd still be easy enough to tell the difference. I don't really care either way.

[SCMom]

It's good to have this dialogue though. It's much better than mud slinging. Nothing is going to get fixed till both sides can calm down and talk rationally. (I know I'm just as much to blame sometimes )