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Old 09-27-2013, 09:16 AM   #21
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Default Re: Is Tomlin Overrated?

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Originally Posted by Millers the sh!t View Post
Overated and overpaid. He turned the steelers into the browns bro.

He'll be the Raiders head coach after he gets fired in two years. And Ben will be his QB.
Why would Ben follow him anywhere? So he can be surrounded by a terrible OL, bad running backs, and average midget WRs?

If this season continues to go badly, I have a feeling Ben might ask to be traded.
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Old 09-27-2013, 09:51 AM   #22
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Default Re: Is Tomlin Overrated?

For the last time, he had to coach the roster he had. Yes, there were players that played under Bill Cowher. So what!? Cowher retired a lame-duck coach with plenty of playoffless seasons in his 15 years. Would you have felt better if we ditched all of Cowher's players just because there was a new coach coming in? In some sick way, I think some of you miserable yinzers kinda' wish for that as some way to legitimize the Rooney's selection. I know as a fact, some of you have a problem with Tomlin at the helm for other, more pathetic reasons I'm not going to play here.

Do all of you Tomlin haters wish that he would have failed with "Cowhers players?" Would that have made you feel better? How about actually enjoying the fact in his first year he stayed the course, retained Lebeau, got them a division championship and aided the organization in getting another Super Bowl in only his 2nd year as coach!? Back to another SB in 2010.

Tell us exactly how you want this team to succeed and under what coaching scenario you have conjured up in your minds and it might just happen with a little fairy dust

Ask Troy about Tomlin from day 1: "From the first day he put the stamp on the team" and when talking about XLIII: "Coach T told us the night before the game that we had a chance to be legendary but the job wasn't finished. No one will remember 2nd place. That really stuck with us"

Sounds like a HOF player and an all-time coveted Steeler praising Mike Tomlin. Maybe you think a little before spewing out a tired topic yet again. LISTEN to what the Steelers players have had to say. This is the Pittsburgh Steelers - your favorite team. Enjoy them, get to know the players a little bit, understand consistency and tried and true traditions that have helped us win more than any team in the past 4-5 decades.

I just met another Ravens fan in his 60s yesterday - a great, knowledgable guy who has witnessed plenty of football for a long time. From Baltimore's Johnny U days to the Steelers dominance in the 70s, to Baltimore leaving, to the Cowher years and having a team for Baltimore to root for again to a great Steelers Ravens rivalry. One of the first things he said to me was

"I feel really bad for you Steelers fans right now. It has to be tough seeing such dominance over the past decade only to see a few years down years. But that's just it - you'll be back on top again in no time - you guys have a marquee organization that the Ravens are striving towards."

That's some unbiased insight that I value from a Ravens fan. If reasonable fans of other teams can see it, why can't some of you fools? We will be back on top again, just be patient and have some faith.
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Old 09-27-2013, 10:11 AM   #23
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Default Re: Is Tomlin Overrated?

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Originally Posted by steelfury02 View Post
For the last time, he had to coach the roster he had. Yes, there were players that played under Bill Cowher. So what!? Cowher retired a lame-duck coach with plenty of playoffless seasons in his 15 years. Would you have felt better if we ditched all of Cowher's players just because there was a new coach coming in? In some sick way, I think some of you miserable yinzers kinda' wish for that as some way to legitimize the Rooney's selection. I know as a fact, some of you have a problem with Tomlin at the helm for other, more pathetic reasons I'm not going to play here.

Do all of you Tomlin haters wish that he would have failed with "Cowhers players?" Would that have made you feel better? How about actually enjoying the fact in his first year he stayed the course, retained Lebeau, got them a division championship and aided the organization in getting another Super Bowl in only his 2nd year as coach!? Back to another SB in 2010.

Tell us exactly how you want this team to succeed and under what coaching scenario you have conjured up in your minds and it might just happen with a little fairy dust

Ask Troy about Tomlin from day 1: "From the first day he put the stamp on the team" and when talking about XLIII: "Coach T told us the night before the game that we had a chance to be legendary but the job wasn't finished. No one will remember 2nd place. That really stuck with us"

Sounds like a HOF player and an all-time coveted Steeler praising Mike Tomlin. Maybe you think a little before spewing out a tired topic yet again. LISTEN to what the Steelers players have had to say. This is the Pittsburgh Steelers - your favorite team. Enjoy them, get to know the players a little bit, understand consistency and tried and true traditions that have helped us win more than any team in the past 4-5 decades.

I just met another Ravens fan in his 60s yesterday - a great, knowledgable guy who has witnessed plenty of football for a long time. From Baltimore's Johnny U days to the Steelers dominance in the 70s, to Baltimore leaving, to the Cowher years and having a team for Baltimore to root for again to a great Steelers Ravens rivalry. One of the first things he said to me was

"I feel really bad for you Steelers fans right now. It has to be tough seeing such dominance over the past decade only to see a few years down years. But that's just it - you'll be back on top again in no time - you guys have a marquee organization that the Ravens are striving towards."

That's some unbiased insight that I value from a Ravens fan. If reasonable fans of other teams can see it, why can't some of you fools? We will be back on top again, just be patient and have some faith.
Great valid points, however I would have to disagree with you, sure coaches earn merit and they earn respect based upon their track record. Tomlin did win a SB in his 2nd year, and yes he did it with Cowher players (if that is the way you want to look at it, I personally look at it like Tomlin won a SB with Steelers, JMO). To me the merit of a good coach is the willingness to adapt to change from year to year, to take the personnel that you have and make them winners every year. To iterate and re-iterate the HC's expectations not only week to week, but during the off-season as well. The minute that the HC leaves things open for interpretation and they become implied not given, that poses a problem, this is what the Steelers are going through right now. As far as the fans go, they have a right to express their disappointment and concern for the 8-8 season last year and the 0-3 start this year, not to mention the playoff loss during the 2011 season to the Broncos (and let me say to TIM TEBOW), that is the right of every Steeler fan. I do not find fault in that aspect, also I believe that no Steeler fan should or is going to be patient in the process, not with the Steelers having six SB titles and teams like San Francisco having five knocking on the six championship door. So yes Sir, you bring great valid points but to suggest the the Steeler faithful needs to be patient is a stretch, IMO of course.
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Old 09-27-2013, 10:29 AM   #24
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Default Re: Is Tomlin Overrated?

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Great valid points, however I would have to disagree with you, sure coaches earn merit and they earn respect based upon their track record. Tomlin did win a SB in his 2nd year, and yes he did it with Cowher players (if that is the way you want to look at it, I personally look at it like Tomlin won a SB with Steelers, JMO). To me the merit of a good coach is the willingness to adapt to change from year to year, to take the personnel that you have and make them winners every year. To iterate and re-iterate the HC's expectations not only week to week, but during the off-season as well. The minute that the HC leaves things open for interpretation and they become implied not given, that poses a problem, this is what the Steelers are going through right now. As far as the fans go, they have a right to express their disappointment and concern for the 8-8 season last year and the 0-3 start this year, not to mention the playoff loss during the 2011 season to the Broncos (and let me say to TIM TEBOW), that is the right of every Steeler fan. I do not find fault in that aspect, also I believe that no Steeler fan should or is going to be patient in the process, not with the Steelers having six SB titles and teams like San Francisco having five knocking on the six championship door. So yes Sir, you bring great valid points but to suggest the the Steeler faithful needs to be patient is a stretch, IMO of course.
For convo's sake - I'm going to throw Cowher's history out the window because with all of his babbling and mishandling of QBs during his tenure he had his fair share of head-scratching HC moves and terrible seasons - more importantly we're comparing a complete body of work to an incomplete one.

You're absolutely right - fans can be disappointed, fans can question the coaching. As a fan, I'm going to reserve my right to tell others to calm the hell down. All the while, I can raise questions of my own - get pissed at things I see. One thing some need to re-realize though is that no matter what, they can't control the outcome but they can control their experience. Some Steelers fans are a miserable bunch

The thread is "Is Tomlin Overrated?" It is a tired, recycled question that comes up the moment we start losing. I heard it with Noll, I heard it with Cowher, I hear it with Tomlin. There isn't much thought put behind the question 9/10 and instead it is impatient fans that are grasping at anything to make them feel better. Being a member of the "Steeler faithful" means just that - faith. I'm a Pittsburgher through and through - born and bred Western PA - All too often I've experienced needless questioning and bashing instead of having faith in consistency, not pulling the trigger. Nothing is guaranteed but a evidenced-based history tells me that yinzer 1 to 1 million who questions Tomlin will be the same one praising him when they retain him for the long haul and he aids in winning #7 someday. It's a roller coaster ride for all and I'm not without my moments of questioning, but, enough is enough with comments and questioning that seems to originate from some place of misery - some Steelers fans just can't wait to blow things up and latch onto something else to bitch about, and keep repeating the ugly "Dey shuldina done that" carousel - it is a negative, deeply seeded way of looking at things, and it is very much a Western PA thing rooted in Steeler Nation.
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Old 09-27-2013, 10:40 AM   #25
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Default Re: Is Tomlin Overrated?

When is the last time you felt the Steelers outcoached another team? Why do Tomlin's teams regularly play down to the level of the competition?

Cowher won with average QBs, even went to a Super Bowl with one. I shudder to think how Tomlin would do if Ben didn't bail him out so much.

Last edited by maddog78; 09-27-2013 at 10:53 AM.
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Old 09-27-2013, 10:41 AM   #26
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Default Re: Is Tomlin Overrated?

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For convo's sake - I'm going to throw Cowher's history out the window because with all of his babbling and mishandling of QBs during his tenure he had his fair share of head-scratching HC moves and terrible seasons - more importantly we're comparing a complete body of work to an incomplete one.

You're absolutely right - fans can be disappointed, fans can question the coaching. As a fan, I'm going to reserve my right to tell others to calm the hell down. All the while, I can raise questions of my own - get pissed at things I see. One thing some need to re-realize though is that no matter what, they can't control the outcome but they can control their experience. Some Steelers fans are a miserable bunch

The thread is "Is Tomlin Overrated?" It is a tired, recycled question that comes up the moment we start losing. I heard it with Noll, I heard it with Cowher, I hear it with Tomlin. There isn't much thought put behind the question 9/10 and instead it is impatient fans that are grasping at anything to make them feel better. Being a member of the "Steeler faithful" means just that - faith. I'm a Pittsburgher through and through - born and bred Western PA - All too often I've experienced needless questioning and bashing instead of having faith in consistency, not pulling the trigger. Nothing is guaranteed but a evidenced-based history tells me that yinzer 1 to 1 million who questions Tomlin will be the same one praising him when they retain him for the long haul and he aids in winning #7 someday. It's a roller coaster ride for all and I'm not without my moments of questioning, but, enough is enough with comments and questioning that seems to originate from some place of misery - some Steelers fans just can't wait to blow things up and latch onto something else to bitch about, and keep repeating the ugly "Dey shuldina done that" carousel - it is a negative, deeply seeded way of looking at things, and it is very much a Western PA thing rooted in Steeler Nation.
I truly believe you may have the same concerns that us others have, you and I probably look to point our frustration elsewhere, that is to the players. At the end of the day the Steelers have definitely had a big-time lack of execution, hell I could think of 53 other personnel that I would like to throw under the bus other than Tomlin, so Sir, once again you have valid points, very valid for that matter, but in retrospect you are just like all of us Steeler faithful, you choose to point the finger elsewhere and you have a virtue that most of us don't, patience, for that believe me I am envious!!!!!
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Old 09-27-2013, 11:02 AM   #27
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Default Re: Is Tomlin Overrated?

I'm a big believer in chemistry.

It's like being in "The Zone" when you're playing a sport or a game or even doing a job. That Zone comes out of nowhere and while it lasts it seems as if you can do no wrong. But The Zone (like chemistry) is tenuous and can disappear in an instant. I can remember being in a Zone on a golf course and cruising along making pars and birdies and feeling really good; and then all of a sudden I'll be standing on a tee and a thought will pop into my head like "Jeez, I have to get my car inspected this week" and **POOF** no more Zone.

So imagine what it's like for an entire team.

Since our last winning season, we've changed a coach, we've traded players, lost players to retirement and lost them to injury and how do you suppose that affects the overall chemistry? It might not even be as dramatic as that. It could be that some guy who worked for the team or the stadium that everyone liked and said "Hello" to every day retired and now they're not there anymore. Or maybe some other thing has changed that's interrupted the chemistry or broken "The Zone".

Things need to settle down first and some kind of normalcy and predictability has to be reestablished and THEN the chemistry can return and we can get back into a Zone. But that takes time and what's worse is that no one can know just what it will be that flips that switch again until it happens and even THEN we might not know just what that thing is.

There's been a lot of upheaval in this team in recent years and that affects people in different ways and the only thing that will really make it better is time and patience.
Maybe there has to be even more upheaval or maybe the worst has passed and we can't know how long that will take, but we WILL know when it's over.
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Old 09-27-2013, 11:03 AM   #28
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Default Re: Is Tomlin Overrated?

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When is the last time you felt the Steelers outcoached another team? Why do Tomlin's teams regularly play down to the level of the competition?

Cowher won with average QBs, even went to a Super Bowl with one. I shudder to think how Tomlin would do if Ben didn't bail him out so much.
You're acting like a QB determined the future back in cowhers day like it does today. Cowher had everything buy a QB, went to multiple AFCCG and still couldn't get it done. Hell he was one shoestring tackle away to no even winning his only Super Bowl.
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Old 09-27-2013, 11:07 AM   #29
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Default Re: Is Tomlin Overrated?

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You're acting like a QB determined the future back in cowhers day like it does today. Cowher had everything buy a QB, went to multiple AFCCG and still couldn't get it done. Hell he was one shoestring tackle away to no even winning his only Super Bowl.
You've always needed a QB to win.

Cowher won 11 and 13 games with Kordell Stewart. 10 with Maddox/Stewart. 10 with Tomczak, 11 and 12 with Neil O'Donnell.

Sorry, don't see Tomlin pulling off the same.

And if you're going to play the what-if game, Tomlin was a 100 yard INT return and a miraculous throw/catch away from losing a Super Bowl to a vastly inferior club.

Cowher's Super Bowl team beat the top seeds on the road, including an AFCC blowout. Then the #1 NFC seed in the SB.

Tomlin's beat a 4th seed at home, a 6th seed led by a rookie QB at home, and the 4th seed from the NFC. Teams that were 8-8, 11-5, 9-7.
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Old 09-27-2013, 11:53 AM   #30
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Default Re: Is Tomlin Overrated?

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You've always needed a QB to win.

Cowher won 11 and 13 games with Kordell Stewart. 10 with Maddox/Stewart. 10 with Tomczak, 11 and 12 with Neil O'Donnell.

Sorry, don't see Tomlin pulling off the same.

And if you're going to play the what-if game, Tomlin was a 100 yard INT return and a miraculous throw/catch away from losing a Super Bowl to a vastly inferior club.

Cowher's Super Bowl team beat the top seeds on the road, including an AFCC blowout. Then the #1 NFC seed in the SB.

Tomlin's beat a 4th seed at home, a 6th seed led by a rookie QB at home, and the 4th seed from the NFC. Teams that were 8-8, 11-5, 9-7.

Touche, however that was near the end of Cowher's career, lets see if Mikey can do the same near the end of his. Better yet, great post!!!!!
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