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Old 10-28-2013, 11:11 PM   #11
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Default Re: The irony about building a complete football team

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There is some truth that, but Elway took 13 years to win those SBs and he did not until they had the TEAM around him. In my opinion, Dan Marino was one of greatest to play the position but didn't have that winning combination of teammates around him. He's a HOF but without a ring.
when having this discussion I throw both Trent Dilfer and Dan Marino out the window. They are both anomalies. I don't think the Dolphins ever really had a good team. Dupre in Clayton were the s*** but what would they have been without Marino? At least Jim Kelly had James Lofton was proven before and after him.not to mention bruce smith and thurman thomas.
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Old 10-28-2013, 11:23 PM   #12
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Default Re: The irony about building a complete football team

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That's the point I'm making, they had a very good team of players which allowed them to win.
So you're actually agreeing with me. I was basically saying that I'd rather build a complete team around Roethlisberger than trade him away and be left looking for another franchise QB once the team is complete again. Football is a team sport, which is why I want the the Steelers to build a complete team around Roethlisberger.
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Old 10-29-2013, 05:45 AM   #13
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Default Re: The irony about building a complete football team

football is definitely the ultimate team sport. You can win it all with a good QB that can make plays, I don't think you need an elite QB. I mean, look at the Ravens, they've never had an elite QB.

As with Denver, they had some great things going on and a team that was dominant for two years, Elway was a great QB, but by no means the only reason they were winning.
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Old 10-29-2013, 06:03 AM   #14
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Default Re: The irony about building a complete football team

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The trick is to hit the jackpot on a QB in the draft and for that matter draft well to have a complete team

On the Monday night game they showed a graphic that Seattle has 0.6% of its cap space tied up in Russell Wilson and 7 or 8 starters making less than $1 million per year. Rams had to pay Bradford under the old system and he is 10% of their cap space

The ESPN crew said the window closes on Seattle when all that young talent gets paid

Once the franchise QB qualifies for his 9 figure contract you need to draft well to have surrounding players or eventually enter cap hell by having older players restructure

Which is why you will never see a 70s Steelers or 80s 49ers team again that wins a bunch of rings with the same core - Steelers being competitive from 2004-2010 is impressive in this era, but not having to pay Ben initially helped a lot

But you cannot win in the playoffs without a QB so that is who gets paid
That's why it's so hard to consistently win over a long period of time in the NFL. That's what makes the Steelers latest run of great teams even more impressive. Being able to replace parts on the fly with little to no drop off. They have finally hit a bump in the road. We need to give them a chance to recover like they always have.
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Old 10-29-2013, 06:29 AM   #15
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Default Re: The irony about building a complete football team

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If there's one irony about building a complete football team, it's that it's easier to build a complete team around a franchise QB than it is to find a franchise QB for an otherwise complete team. Just remember that the next time anybody considers trading Ben Roethlisberger to be a worthwhile endeavor. If those people had their way, the Steelers would be built like the Texans: a complete team without a QB, and no legitimate chance at winning a championship. The Steelers have already experienced that dilemma themselves, during the 1990's and early 2000's.

The QB is the most important position on a football team by far, and the most difficult to find. If you have a proven winner at QB, you keep him and you rebuild around him, like the Broncos did with John Elway. I don't want to hear about Joe Montana or Brett Favre either, because they were replaced by Steve Young and Aaron Rodgers. I don't see a QB of their caliber on the Steelers bench. Commit to Roethlisberger with a contract extension; make him the centerpiece of the team, and get back to the playoffs by 2015 at the latest.
If anyone should know that, it's the Rooney's.
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Old 10-29-2013, 06:31 AM   #16
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Default Re: The irony about building a complete football team

I know we haven't seen much (aside from college), but does no one believe that Landry Jones could eventually step up to lead our offense? He's in the perfect situation (or near perfect pending a few additions in the coming years): Behind two veterans with no pressure and the chance to learn. That seems to be the key for many good QBs laying in wait.
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Old 10-29-2013, 06:43 AM   #17
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Default Re: The irony about building a complete football team

The reason we stink is that our coaching staff is a disaster. Coaching has a lot do with how teams perform. Look at KC. At least we don't have Chip Kelly or Schiano as coaches.
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Old 10-29-2013, 07:06 AM   #18
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Default Re: The irony about building a complete football team

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If we're in a position to draft Bridgewater or Mariota, Roethlisberger is expendable. I very much doubt we get either of those guys though unfortunately.
I see what you're saying but the timing has to be right. Ben's contract has to be to a point where it's not a drag on the rest of the roster AND the rest of the roster has to be a bunch of up and coming stud players before you gamble on a young QB. Example, Seattle and San Francisco.

Otherwise, you draft a young QB who may turn out to be great, but by the time you put together the rest of the team, the QB is up for his new big money contract and the rest of the roster has to be slashed to keep him. Example, Baltimore. Not that Flacco is great but he got his money, and the rest of the team got hammered.

Timing is going to be everything...sounds like life.

I'm starting to wonder if KC will be the new model. Get a mid level QB that won't suck up a huge chunk of your salary cap so you can spread your money better. You may not be buying your QBs jersey, but you'll overall out talent teams enough to have a shot at the SB.
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Old 10-29-2013, 07:35 AM   #19
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Default Re: The irony about building a complete football team

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The trick is to hit the jackpot on a QB in the draft and for that matter draft well to have a complete team

On the Monday night game they showed a graphic that Seattle has 0.6% of its cap space tied up in Russell Wilson and 7 or 8 starters making less than $1 million per year. Rams had to pay Bradford under the old system and he is 10% of their cap space

The ESPN crew said the window closes on Seattle when all that young talent gets paid

Once the franchise QB qualifies for his 9 figure contract you need to draft well to have surrounding players or eventually enter cap hell by having older players restructure

Which is why you will never see a 70s Steelers or 80s 49ers team again that wins a bunch of rings with the same core - Steelers being competitive from 2004-2010 is impressive in this era, but not having to pay Ben initially helped a lot

But you cannot win in the playoffs without a QB so that is who gets paid
Yep.
As I've said plenty of times: the Seahawks, 49ers, & Bengals had better win now, because they are going to have to deal with the salary cap in about two seasons.

(Note: Cincy won't have to pay Dalton nearly as much, but they will indeed have to pay Green, Atkins, Burfict... and about four others.)
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Old 10-29-2013, 07:57 AM   #20
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Default Re: The irony about building a complete football team

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I know we haven't seen much (aside from college), but does no one believe that Landry Jones could eventually step up to lead our offense? He's in the perfect situation (or near perfect pending a few additions in the coming years): Behind two veterans with no pressure and the chance to learn. That seems to be the key for many good QBs laying in wait.
I think the Steelers were hoping to get a steal with Jones but given their draft history since 2008 I doubt the rest of the league was so dumb that if Jones really was a long time starter he would have slipped to the 4th round. I know he looked good against Carolina in the 4th preseason game but that was against scrubs. But the only way to find out is to play him in a real game

If Ben gets hurt when the Steelers are around 4-9 in December it will be interesting to see if Tomlin decides to take a look at Jones.
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