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Steelers Steelers - Giants Giants
August 9th, 2014, 7:30pmET

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Old 01-12-2014, 11:25 PM   #21
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Default Re: Ben is he or will he pass Bradshaw has best Steelers QB

Bradshaw did not have the advantage of having plays called for him into his helmet. Bradshaw did not have the advantage of his receivers being able to run free through the secondary. Bradshaw wasn't protected like he was a fine piece of china. At the end of the day, this is nothing but a fun debate. But give me Terry Bradshaw and Swann and Stallworth in todays NFL and we are talking monster offense. I think Ben is a great qb, but give me Bradshaw all day long.
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Old 01-13-2014, 03:08 AM   #22
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Default Re: Ben is he or will he pass Bradshaw has best Steelers QB

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Fact of the matter is that Bradshaw played QB on great Steeler TEAMS who won all the marbles 4 times. You can't take that away from the guy nor the TEAM that he played with. We also can't take away BB's accomplishments either, but we're talking about two very different environments for playing football. Keep the stats, give me the hardware with decent stats that showed I did my job.
No one is doubting that the 70s Steelers are probably the best team ever. The point is, like you said, it's the best TEAM ever. You're committing a fallacy of division to say that therefore means Bradshaw is the best QB ever (or in Steelers history). Bradshaw had lots and lots of help to bail him out when he didn't perform. Yes, there are a few instances of Ben getting this benefit also, but never to the degree Bradshaw had, with so many HOFers. If Ben had no rings and Bradshaw had 4, it might be different. But when Ben has both rings and stats, while Bradshaw only has rings, I don't think there's any question Ben is better. By contrast, Ben has probably never played on a team as good as any of Bradshaw's either. But that, in my mind, only bolsters the argument that Ben is substantially better. We saw especially this year that Ben is the guy who has to win the game for this team more often than not. If he doesn't pull it off, chances are no one will. Even when the defense was better, Ben was so often asked to have a late drive to win...and often was successful. When the Steelers of the 70s had to win a game, they could rely on the greatest D ever, 2 of the greatest WRs ever, and one of the greatest RBs ever (running behind one of the greatest centers ever). Bradshaw had the luxury to have bad games. Ben doesn't often have that. Did you know Bradshaw is the only QB (out of 16) ever to throw 3+ INTs in a Super Bowl and win? Also, in 3 career SBs, Ben already has more passing attempts than Bradshaw does in 4, which shows how much more important Ben is to his team. Meanwhile, Franco has the most SB rushing attempts ever, showing how the Steelers leaned on the running game.
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Old 01-13-2014, 04:06 AM   #23
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Default Re: Ben is he or will he pass Bradshaw has best Steelers QB

Bradshaw called every play. There was no offensive coordinator to blame things on back then. Ben is extremely talented and tough, but when it comes down to it, he doesn't have the feel and knowledge of the game that Bradshaw did. If Ben would have spent more time watching tape and being a student of the game than chasing girls and wrecking motorcycles earlier in his career, he would have already won at least 3 Super Bowls. Not to mention the absolute fact that Bradshaw could throw the ball farther (imagine Wallace catching all those underthrown passes in stride before he left). Therefore Bradshaw wins. Sorry, but if you weren't around and didn't see him play, you can't really compare.
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Old 01-13-2014, 05:38 AM   #24
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Default Re: Ben is he or will he pass Bradshaw has best Steelers QB

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Uh... are you talking about arm strength or accuracy? I guess it doesn't matter since Bradshaw wasn't better than Roethlisberger is either.

The question is hard because it's who's better - the guy that's already in the hall of fame or the guy who's headed there when he stops playing.
Canada,
All due respect, but.......Terry had the stronger arm and threw a better deep ball.
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Old 01-13-2014, 05:42 AM   #25
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Default Re: Ben is he or will he pass Bradshaw has best Steelers QB

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Ben's completion percentage is much better than Bradshaws, but Terry had the best deep ball I ever seen and would take his over any one else. As far as holding the ball, first we were a run first team and pretty damn good at it during the 70's, second he had a pretty good line, and finally we had Stallworth and Swan. Ben would of done very well on that 70's team. The trouble with these what if scenarios is it is all conjecture and speculation.
I agree with you completely on this point.
Few QB's could place a deep ball likeTerry did consistently
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Old 01-13-2014, 05:49 AM   #26
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Default Re: Ben is he or will he pass Bradshaw has best Steelers QB

I was around for Bradshaw. yes he was benched and was loved and hated in Pittsburgh much like Ben is now.I agree he had the best deep ball and TB called a lot of his own plays, much like Ben does even with a voice in his helmet. Terry had the best running game , the best receivers, and while the rules favored the defenses the players were not the type on the field today. Terry is a HOF but his numbers were never great compared to some of the others of his time (much like Ben now), I mean Matthew Stafford and Romo will put up great numbers and will surpass QBs like Terry but in no way will I say they are better, The same argument when Ben and Terry are involved, but the biggest difference is this Ben is a throwback in the modern world, Someone said Terry was tough, and Ben is not, Ben is one of the toughest QBs I have ever seen. No way to win these debates guys, I just know my eyes and memory are still pretty good (maybe not so much later) and I would take Ben first in a draft, but both would do well if roles had been reversed.
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Old 01-13-2014, 06:51 AM   #27
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Default Re: Ben is he or will he pass Bradshaw has best Steelers QB

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If Ben was able to pull off that drive against GB, I'd say Ben, but currently Bradshaw.
and that, ladies and gentleman, is the reasonable "rap".
Bradshaw for the win, still, so far.
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Old 01-13-2014, 07:55 AM   #28
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Default Re: Ben is he or will he pass Bradshaw has best Steelers QB

im gonna say ben! we will never know if bradshaw would have flourished in todays game or not! what i do know is terry was surrounded by talent after 1974...stallworth, swan, harris, blier! bradshaw rarely had running backs that put up less than 2000 yds rushing during the dynasty years! ben has had a 1000 yd rusher 5 times! i may get scorched on this one but....bradshaws receivers made him look good...swan and stallworth were amazing! ben in my opinion makes receivers look good here....wallace, holmes...both flourished with ben and not so much their new teams! can you imagine ben with swan, stallworth, harris and blier??????
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Old 01-13-2014, 08:04 AM   #29
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Default Re: Ben is he or will he pass Bradshaw has best Steelers QB

No debate here, Ben all the way.

C_T

That says it all for me.
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Old 01-13-2014, 08:51 AM   #30
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Default Re: Ben is he or will he pass Bradshaw has best Steelers QB

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I saw both and each was Great and in Ben's case still has time to add to his legacy. Ben's numbers dwarf Bradshaw in completion and TD/Int ratio. But you said it different era, different rules, and different type of teams. The Steelers of the 70's were a power team and had teams that average over 5 yds per carry. While the Steelers of recent years are statistically superior in most categories don't be fooled, those 70's teams were the best I ever saw, including the 85 Bears and the Ravens of young Ray Lewis years. Thing is I believe if both QBs could of somehow swapped time and Ben had come first and Terry later we would still have 6 Lombardis and we would still be comparing them.
Having lived through the Bradshaw era and having watched him play the game, I think Ben still has a ways to go.

What Bradshaw did versus how he ranks in the Pantheon of great QB's is the reason why I believe that Pro Football needs to have a stat for "slugging percentage" as does baseball because if ever there was a slugger in the NFL, it was Bradshaw.

Terry's numbers do not place him in the top five or even in the top ten in the most common categories used to define a QB's "greatness" but he's still the first QB to win 4 SB's and the ONLY ONE to do that in just 6 years. Don't forget too that back in '76, if Franco and Bleir hadn't both come down with the flu around playoff time, it's possible that he would have had 5 SB's in that time frame. But if ever there was a guy who I would want to have the ball in his hand with a game on ther line -- it was Terry.

Granted, Terry had a great defense to help him out when he jumped off the rails and certainly his performance in SBIX was more game-manager than superstar, but great defense or not, SB's X, XIII and XIV were mostly Bradshaw.

Bradshaw just wanted to throw the ball and his interception percentage shows that. But his philosophy was different than many QB's today in that he simply regarded a deep pass on 3rd down as being the same as a punt, so he took that chance far more often and with some pretty good success. People say that Terry "drew it up in the dirt" and basically he did. He called his own plays and when he thought he saw an opportunity he didn't waste time with all of the signal-calling like Manning does today but was rather more likely to just wink at either Swann or Stallworth and they all knew what to do from there.

I've said many times that Ben is like a modern-day Bradshaw and if you made him a couple of inches shorter and had him wear number 12, it would be hard to tell them apart (except of course for the long ball). Ben is basically a "draw it up in the dirt" guy himself and though he plays a modern game he has an old-fashioned heart and is at his best when the wheels seem to be falling off just as Terry was back in the day. Ben relishes being in the moment and couldn't care less about "stats" and is the only QB we've had since Bradshaw who I'd most like to have the ball in clutch time.

Ben will not surpass Bradshaw unless he racks up some more Lombardi's but even if he doesn't pass Bradshaw in hardware, I will always think of him as Bradshaw 2.0.
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