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August 9th, 2014, 7:30pmET

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Old 01-20-2014, 04:52 PM   #21
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Default Re: Tom Brady = choker. Cant win the big game

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Originally Posted by pczach View Post
Sorry man....no sympathy here for Brady. He deserves as much crap to come his way as anybody else. He's led a charmed life. He's won a bunch of important games in questionable ways and with poor performances by him. Now he's been losing a bunch of games with questionable performances by him.

If you're willing to take the credit and the glory when you win, you sure as hell better be able to take it when you lose.
This is a much more accurate description of things.

With rare and notable exception, nearly every player's legacy is complicated.

Brady's legacy will be split into two eras, I suppose pre/post 'Spygate' (or perhaps pre/post injury?). Whether or not that's fair will be up for debate until the end of time. However things are broken down, Brady will still be remembered among the best, but detractors will have plenty of reasons to keep his name lower on any hypothetical 'top list'.
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Old 01-20-2014, 05:17 PM   #22
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Default Re: Tom Brady = choker. Cant win the big game

@Atlanta Dan you're right, I messed up and said post season twice. He has the highest winning percentage in the Super Bowl era. My mistake.

Even still, what I said holds. The guy has done more with less than Peyton ever has or ever will. He took his team to 12 - 4 with Dobson, Amendola and Edelman as his top receivers. He didn't have Gronk, Hernandez or Welker to throw to and a shaky run game to boot. The things he's been able to accomplish in his career are astounding. I realize he's not well liked here, but to call him a choker or anything close to it is silly. Just plain silly. He was a helmet catch and a Welker drop away from having 5 Super Bowl rings.
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Old 01-20-2014, 05:24 PM   #23
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Default Re: Tom Brady = choker. Cant win the big game

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He was a helmet catch and a Welker drop away from having 5 Super Bowl rings.
if you want to put it like that though, the pats were a field goal away from losing the three that they did win.
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Old 01-20-2014, 05:25 PM   #24
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Default Re: Tom Brady = choker. Cant win the big game

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if you want to put it like that though, the pats were a field goal away from losing the three that they did win.
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Old 01-20-2014, 05:30 PM   #25
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Default Re: Tom Brady = choker. Cant win the big game

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if you want to put it like that though, the pats were a field goal away from losing the three that they did win.
Which is fair. He was able to put his team into a position to win, however. I'm not saying that Vinatieri doesn't deserve any credit, but we've seen him drive down the field game in and game out in the postseason and put together surgical drives with mediocre at best receiving talent around him for years now. Hell, when he did have a legitimate receiver to throw to, he threw 50 TDs and almost had a perfect season.

I'm not saying he's not without his flaws, but the guy has made a career of being clutch. When you mention guys like Peyton, you also have to mention his inability to win big games for years.

In my mind, Brady is the GOAT and if I'm being perfectly honest, it's not all that close.
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Old 01-20-2014, 05:32 PM   #26
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Default Re: Tom Brady = choker. Cant win the big game

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@Atlanta Dan you're right, I messed up and said post season twice. He has the highest winning percentage in the Super Bowl era. My mistake..

Even still, what I said holds. The guy has done more with less than Peyton ever has or ever will.
I think Bradshaw and Montana played in the Super Bowl era - I am old but not that old

And as far as Brady working with spare parts, he had some help on defense

Pats defense in points allowed in their 3 Super Bowl winning years

2001 - 6th
2003 - 1st
2004 - 2nd

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/nwe/


It is not a stretch to argue Brady is like Ben - he won it all when he had a great D to back him up
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Old 01-20-2014, 05:33 PM   #27
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Default Re: Tom Brady = choker. Cant win the big game

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if you want to put it like that though, the pats were a field goal away from losing the three that they did win.
Exactly!

Classic glass half full/empty perspective.

Just for comparison to the 'Gold Standard:

Everybody remembers Joe Montana going 4-0 in the Super Bowl; nobody talks about how he lost five playoff games in seven years, including an 0-3 stretch from 85-87 and three to his 'kryptonite', the NY Giants.

One must consider the larger picture before throwing out arbitrary labels.
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Old 01-20-2014, 05:34 PM   #28
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Default Re: Tom Brady = choker. Cant win the big game

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@Atlanta Dan you're right, I messed up and said post season twice. He has the highest winning percentage in the Super Bowl era. My mistake.

Even still, what I said holds. The guy has done more with less than Peyton ever has or ever will. He took his team to 12 - 4 with Dobson, Amendola and Edelman as his top receivers. He didn't have Gronk, Hernandez or Welker to throw to and a shaky run game to boot. The things he's been able to accomplish in his career are astounding. I realize he's not well liked here, but to call him a choker or anything close to it is silly. Just plain silly. He was a helmet catch and a Welker drop away from having 5 Super Bowl rings.
while your busy explaining how brady turned water into wine , lets not forget how weak the AFC collectively was this year. brady has historically had his nuts slurped on for making average receivers look like all pro's ... ya can't have it both ways.
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Old 01-20-2014, 05:36 PM   #29
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Default Re: Tom Brady = choker. Cant win the big game

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Pats defense in points allowed in their 3 Super Bowl winning years

2001 - 6th
2003 - 1st
2004 - 2nd

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/nwe/


It is not a stretch to argue Brady is like Ben - he won it all when he had a great D to back him up
The Patriots were a complete team. They also had dick all on offense from, really, '01 - '07 when he got Randy. The '07 season really sticks out as it was arguably the best year of any Quarterback in NFL history until this season with Manning.
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Old 01-20-2014, 05:37 PM   #30
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Default Re: Tom Brady = choker. Cant win the big game

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Pats defense in points allowed in their 3 Super Bowl winning years

2001 - 6th
2003 - 1st
2004 - 2nd

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/nwe/


It is not a stretch to argue Brady is like Ben - he won it all when he had a great D to back him up
Yeah, but the Pats only had top-10 Ds those years since they were spying on their opponents!

It's not like they had top-10 Ds after 'Spygate'...

2006: 2nd
2007: 4th
2008: 8th
2009: 5th
2010: 8th
2011: 15th
2012: 9th
2013: 10th

Team is all smoke, mirrors and video cameras.
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