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Old 02-10-2014, 12:39 PM   #31
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Default Re: Draft prospect Michael Sam comes out as gay

Human quote machine Ryan Clark not surprisingly has a lot to say on this

Initial comments last night on ESPN

"I think what we have to be very careful about is making sure that if a guy doesn't come out and say he's in full support just knowing he's not in opposition. Just understanding that for a lot of guys it's going to take some time to get used to that has never been through this situation. For us, it's about being patient with the whole process and allowing the guy to play football."

http://espn.go.com/blog/pittsburgh-s...rt-michael-sam

But not willing to leave it at that, since there is no such thing as saying too much for Ryan Clark, he shared further thoughts this morning

“You want to know how you can behave around this person,” Clark said. “Anyone who has been in a football locker room knows that there’s a lot of jokes, a lot of ribbing. We’ll talk about anything. If a guy is fat. If a guy is ugly. If a guy’s significant other is not attractive. These are things you josh each other about and you talk with each other about. In what ways can you talk to him? In what ways can you involve him in your conversations? What are the things you can do and say around him that won’t make him uncomfortable? That won’t make him feel that he’s being ostracized? Or that won’t make him feel like he’s being harassed or quote, unquote bullied?

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com...o-michael-sam/

Bullshit on Clark needing to know how you can behave. Ask Clark if a white player would be expected to need guidance before wondering if he could make racist comments to Clark since you talk about "anything" in the locker room.

WTF - a grown man should not need a script to decide whether or not what he is saying crosses the line unless a gay man is such an "other" to Clark that Clark cannot figure out boundaries on his own like everyone else who has gay co-workers who are out. Wonder if Clark thinks white baseball players should have been expected to get guidance from HR before they would be comfortable talking to Jackie Robinson.
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Old 02-10-2014, 12:44 PM   #32
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Default Re: Draft prospect Michael Sam comes out as gay

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Originally Posted by kan_t View Post
In 1969, the year before his death, the only year he coached the Redskins, Lombardi worked with at least five gay men -- three players and two front-office executives, including David Slattery, who would come out in 1993. In his defining biography, "When Pride Still Mattered," author David Maraniss described the scene of Lombardi charging an assistant to work with one of the gay players, a struggling back named Ray McDonald. "And if I hear one of you people make reference to his manhood," Lombardi is quoted as saying, "you'll be out of here before your ass hits the ground."

http://espn.go.com/new-york/nfl/stor...-jason-collins

A strong coach and front office shouldn't and wouldn't afraid of taking him, if they think he can play.
If Lombardi could do it, anyone should be able to. Anyhow this is part of why I admire Lombardi. He also stood up for a player that was dating and or married to a white woman. He didn't care about skin color or sexual orientation. He wanted good football players. If a man born in 1913 can get that, I think anyone should be able to.
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Old 02-10-2014, 01:03 PM   #33
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Default Re: Draft prospect Michael Sam comes out as gay

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Originally Posted by Atlanta Dan View Post
Human quote machine Ryan Clark not surprisingly has a lot to say on this

Initial comments last night on ESPN

"I think what we have to be very careful about is making sure that if a guy doesn't come out and say he's in full support just knowing he's not in opposition. Just understanding that for a lot of guys it's going to take some time to get used to that has never been through this situation. For us, it's about being patient with the whole process and allowing the guy to play football."

http://espn.go.com/blog/pittsburgh-s...rt-michael-sam

But not willing to leave it at that, since there is no such thing as saying too much for Ryan Clark, he shared further thoughts this morning

“You want to know how you can behave around this person,” Clark said. “Anyone who has been in a football locker room knows that there’s a lot of jokes, a lot of ribbing. We’ll talk about anything. If a guy is fat. If a guy is ugly. If a guy’s significant other is not attractive. These are things you josh each other about and you talk with each other about. In what ways can you talk to him? In what ways can you involve him in your conversations? What are the things you can do and say around him that won’t make him uncomfortable? That won’t make him feel that he’s being ostracized? Or that won’t make him feel like he’s being harassed or quote, unquote bullied?

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com...o-michael-sam/

Bullshit on Clark needing to know how you can behave. Ask Clark if a white player would be expected to need guidance before wondering if he could make racist comments to Clark since you talk about "anything" in the locker room.

WTF - a grown man should not need a script to decide whether or not what he is saying crosses the line unless a gay man is such an "other" to Clark that Clark cannot figure out boundaries on his own like everyone else who has gay co-workers who are out. Wonder if Clark thinks white baseball players should have been expected to get guidance from HR before they would be comfortable talking to Jackie Robinson.
Now I'm imagining Ryan Clark ribbing Michael Sam by telling him how ugly his boyfriend is.


Michael Sam Hoping Sexuality Won't Be An Issue In Locker Room Full of Testosterone-Fueled Former High School Bullies

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After sending shockwaves through the sports world by publicly coming out as gay, University of Missouri defensive end and highly rated draft prospect Michael Sam expressed optimism Monday that his newly revealed sexuality won’t be an issue in an NFL locker room filled with rage-driven, testosterone-fueled former high school bullies. “I know my decision to come out is unprecedented in professional football, but I’m hopeful that my future teammates, many of whom once used their strength and intimidating physical stature to torment any of their peers whom they deemed weird or different, will respect me,” Sam told reporters, adding that while he doesn’t expect everyone to necessarily embrace his homosexuality, he hopes to at least receive fair treatment from fellow professional athletes who spent their formative years screaming “Faggot!” at effeminate classmates before shoving them into walls and punching them in the backs of their heads. “At the end of the day, we’re football players focused on winning games, so conceivably my sexual orientation won’t be a distraction to a group of oversized men essentially paid to violently express their anger on a daily basis and whose physical aggression toward others pretty much defines who they are as human beings.” Sam was also reportedly confident that his announcement will not adversely affect his draft stock among teams looking to capitalize on his sexual orientation in order to boost their own public image.
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Old 02-10-2014, 01:07 PM   #34
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Default Re: Draft prospect Michael Sam comes out as gay

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@SoCalFan didn't mention sexual contact or initiating it, rather that it is doesn't seem 'fair' to allow the potential for sexual interest (as social norms don't allow females and males undressing together).
Well social norms did not allow white and black men to undress together in segregated work spaces either, social norms cited the need for segregation to keep white women away from rapacious black men, and social norms were cited to keep women sportswriters from having access to the locker room.

I guess in order to avoid the potential for same sex sexual interest I will need to ask my doctor if he is gay the next time he asks me to cough or checks my prostate.

Gay football players presumably can turn off their sexual urges just like heterosexual men can avoid leering at women in the workplace to avoid a chat with HR.

This from a NYT columnist who is gay

A news flash for every straight man out there: You’ve been naked in front of a gay man....

He probably wasn’t checking you out. He certainly wasn’t beaming special gay-conversion gamma rays at you. That’s why you weren’t aware of his presence and didn’t immediately go out and buy a more expensive moisturizer and a disc of Judy Garland’s greatest hits. His purpose mirrored yours. He was changing clothes and showering. It’s a locker room, for heaven’s sake. Not last call at the Rawhide.


http://www.nytimes.com/2014/02/11/op...p&rref=opinion

Quote:
Quite honestly I don't see why this is a big deal. Mike Mussina and Charles Barkley have it right.

This seems like one of those 'hot topics' that must be brought up at any chance to make it seem like a modern 'civil movement' and that we're 'making history'.
Seeing as this is the first time someone who has a realistic chance to play in the NFL has come out prior to retirement (notwithstanding the comment from one NFL general manager that the SEC defensive player of the year is not a very good player who will not get drafted) it would appear to be a big deal - until someone having the courage to come out succeeds in the NFL you are going to continue to get the sort of comments heard from NFL front office types that the NFL will be ready for an openly gay player in 10 or 20 years but not "just yet" (a/k/a never).

Interesting column on this issue

The NFL Will Never Be 'Ready' for an Openly Gay Player


Groups define themselves by what they are and what they are not: ******s are never men, ladies are never soldiers, and faggots don't play football. When Michael Sam steps on a football field, he likely will not merely be playing for his career but, in some sense, for his people. ...


Powerful interests are rarely "ready" for change, so much as they are assaulted by it. We refer to barriers being "broken" for a reason. The reason is not because great powers generally like to unbar the gates and hold a picnic in the honor of the previously excluded. The NFL has no moral right to be "ready" for a gay player, which is to say it has no right to discriminate against gay men at its leisure which anyone is bound to respect.

http://www.theatlantic.com/entertain...player/283706/
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Last edited by Atlanta Dan; 02-10-2014 at 02:14 PM. Reason: Added NYT link about gay men in locker rooms concerns
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Old 02-10-2014, 01:11 PM   #35
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Default Re: Draft prospect Michael Sam comes out as gay

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Now I'm imagining Ryan Clark ribbing Michael Sam by telling him how ugly his boyfriend is.


Of course the clear comeback for that would be Sam asking Clark what sort of men he regards as attractive
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Old 02-10-2014, 01:18 PM   #36
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Default Re: Draft prospect Michael Sam comes out as gay

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It's interesting that organizations such as Baltimore and Pittsburgh aren't on that list. I'm not really sure who would hassle him on the Steelers or the Ravens.
Pft, Packers...
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Old 02-10-2014, 02:21 PM   #37
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Default Re: Draft prospect Michael Sam comes out as gay

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Of course the clear comeback for that would be Sam asking Clark what sort of men he regards as attractive
When you're having anal with your boyfriend, he asks "Is it in yet?"
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Old 02-10-2014, 02:49 PM   #38
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Default Re: Draft prospect Michael Sam comes out as gay

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Because every time a gay man is in the locker room or restroom he cannot help but stare at the naked male bodies and then attempt to initiate sexual contact?

So you have no gripe about gay male athletes other than the part where they are in the locker room with the rest of the team
Pretty spot on! Would you not stare if you were in a locker full of naked "female" athletes? He will be placed in a locker with the men, which he clearly lusts after, there is no denying that! I know shower time will be quite awkward for many and I really do believe he should have a separate shower. I visit the local gym 3-4 times a week and think its BS that the gay men that visit the gym (I know a few of them and voiced my opinion to them) are allowed in, which is why I stay out! I work for a construction firm that does a lot of work with high end retail stores like Nordstrom Bloomingdales etc. and have friends that work at those stores that are gay. They know I am not a homophobe but respect (and understand) my views!
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Old 02-10-2014, 03:00 PM   #39
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Default Re: Draft prospect Michael Sam comes out as gay

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Pretty spot on! Would you not stare if you were in a locker full of naked "female" athletes? He will be placed in a locker with the men, which he clearly lusts after, there is no denying that! I know shower time will be quite awkward for many and I really do believe he should have a separate shower. I visit the local gym 3-4 times a week and think its BS that the gay men that visit the gym (I know a few of them and voiced my opinion to them) are allowed in, which is why I stay out! I work for a construction firm that does a lot of work with high end retail stores like Nordstrom Bloomingdales etc. and have friends that work at those stores that are gay. They know I am not a homophobe but respect (and understand) my views!
Dude... c'mon. Are you attracted to all women? This is a ridiculous generalization. Gay men are not attracted to all men and the implication that he's attracted to other "athletes" is pretty silly. How could you possibly know what he's attracted to? How do you know he's not currently involved in a relationship? I don't know about you, but I've been with my girlfriend for a few years now and while I can obviously recognize a beautiful girl, it doesn't mean that I want to have a sexual relationship with her.

This is ridiculous ideology here man.
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Old 02-10-2014, 03:15 PM   #40
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Default Re: Draft prospect Michael Sam comes out as gay

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Pretty spot on! Would you not stare if you were in a locker full of naked "female" athletes? He will be placed in a locker with the men, which he clearly lusts after, there is no denying that! I know shower time will be quite awkward for many and I really do believe he should have a separate shower. I visit the local gym 3-4 times a week and think its BS that the gay men that visit the gym (I know a few of them and voiced my opinion to them) are allowed in, which is why I stay out! I work for a construction firm that does a lot of work with high end retail stores like Nordstrom Bloomingdales etc. and have friends that work at those stores that are gay. They know I am not a homophobe but respect (and understand) my views!



Nice try, cap. You're not fooling anybody
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Last edited by JonM229; 02-10-2014 at 03:31 PM.
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