Why register with the Steelers Fever Forums?
 • Intelligent and friendly discussions.
 • It's free and it's quick. Always.
 • Enter events in the forums calendar.
 • Very user friendly software.
 • Exclusive contests and giveaways.

 Donate to Steelers Fever, Click here
 Our 2014 Goal: $450.00 - To Date: $450.00 (100.00%)
 Home | Forums | Editorials | Shop | Tickets | Downloads | Contact Pittsburgh Steelers Forum Feed Not Just Fans. Hardcore Fans.

Go Back   Steelers Fever Forums > Miscellaneous > Locker Room


Steelers Fever Fan Shop

Doc's Sports Get FREE NFL Picks and College Football picks as well as Football Lines like live NFL Lines and updated NFL Power Rankings all at Doc's Sports Service.

Steelers

LOL

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 07-22-2014, 12:44 PM   #21
Born2Steel
Team Captain
 
Born2Steel's Avatar
 

Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 700
Gender: Male
Member Number: 25772
Thanks: 664
Thanked 652 Times in 383 Posts
My Mood: Sneaky
Default Re: Obamacare faces another court threat — and this one could be fatal

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vis View Post
That is correct. The idea is for people to be responsible. It's like laws requiring auto insurance. People without insurance pass their treatment costs to taxpayers.
What "treatment costs" are you referring to?
__________________
Born2Steel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-22-2014, 12:50 PM   #22
Vis
In Hoc
Supporter
 
Vis's Avatar
 

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: SC
Posts: 8,222
Gender: Male
Member Number: 5117
Thanks: 825
Thanked 5,925 Times in 2,852 Posts
My Mood: Tired
Default Re: Obamacare faces another court threat — and this one could be fatal

Quote:
Originally Posted by Born2Steel View Post
What "treatment costs" are you referring to?
Like when you get malaria and go to the ER and they have to treat you.
__________________


All generalizations are dangerous.
Vis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-22-2014, 12:52 PM   #23
Vis
In Hoc
Supporter
 
Vis's Avatar
 

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: SC
Posts: 8,222
Gender: Male
Member Number: 5117
Thanks: 825
Thanked 5,925 Times in 2,852 Posts
My Mood: Tired
Default Re: Obamacare faces another court threat — and this one could be fatal

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheWarDen86 View Post
Vis, that's a poor comparison.

We will now pay for those who can't afford the insurance and are penalized essentially for not contributing to that pool.

It's not that same as auto insurance at all.
You pay for those without insurance now. The law requires people to pay for their own. You are bitching that you might have to.
__________________


All generalizations are dangerous.
Vis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-22-2014, 12:53 PM   #24
Vis
In Hoc
Supporter
 
Vis's Avatar
 

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: SC
Posts: 8,222
Gender: Male
Member Number: 5117
Thanks: 825
Thanked 5,925 Times in 2,852 Posts
My Mood: Tired
Default Re: Obamacare faces another court threat — and this one could be fatal

Quote:
Originally Posted by Born2Steel View Post
If it will be the same as car insurance then why isn't my employer being forced to offer me car insurance as well? The vast majority of employees drive after all. Also, none of the taxes I pay go toward buying car insurance for those that can't afford it. So, no that doesn't explain it to me.
You're employer can pay your car insurance. Next raise negotiation, bring it up.
__________________


All generalizations are dangerous.
Vis is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Vis For This Useful Post:
Born2Steel (07-22-2014)
Old 07-22-2014, 12:59 PM   #25
Atlanta Dan
Resigned
Supporter
 
Atlanta Dan's Avatar
 

Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 15,356
Member Number: 728
Thanks: 2,628
Thanked 8,397 Times in 3,686 Posts
Default Re: Obamacare faces another court threat — and this one could be fatal

Quote:
Originally Posted by Born2Steel View Post
If it will be the same as car insurance then why isn't my employer being forced to offer me car insurance as well? The vast majority of employees drive after all. Also, none of the taxes I pay go toward buying car insurance for those that can't afford it. So, no that doesn't explain it to me.
You can elect not to drive a car - some free market maniacs claim people can elect not to participate in the American health care system, but when someone goes to the ER they are not going to be allowed to die and if they are uninsured someone is still going to have to pay for the treatment.

Since everyone is a willing or unwilling participant in the health care system the theory is the free riders who do not elect to buy insurance should be compelled to obtain insurance.

Using employers as the means of providing employee insurance is a screwed up legacy of employers providing health insurance to U.S. workers as a means of circumventing wage-price controls during World War II

Ask any group of health policy experts whether they would have put in place our employment-based health insurance system, had they had the luxury of designing our health system from scratch, the resounding answer most likely would be “No.” In fact, no other industrialized country has quite this arrangement. It is uniquely American in origin and in modus operandi.

Our employment-based system was not the product of a carefully designed health policy. It was a byproduct of evading wage controls during World War II.

At the time it was thought that, as the nation’s drafted military personnel risked their limbs and life on foreign battlefields at low, tightly controlled pay, those who stayed behind should have their wages controlled as well.

But with the wink of the eye with which Congress routinely puts loopholes into the tax laws or regulations it imposes, the wage controls imposed in World War II did not extend to fringe benefits. And thus, employer-paid fringe benefits, including employment-based health insurance, were born.


http://economix.blogs.nytimes.com/20...-worth-saving/

That U.S. system of providing health insurance through employers is not going away anytime soon, even though the U.S. hopefully will move over time to delivery of health care through programs such as those available in Germany

Every German resident must belong to a sickness fund, and in turn the funds must insure all comers.

They’re also mandated to cover a standard set of benefits, which includes most procedures and medications. Workers pay half the cost of their sickness fund insurance, and employers pay the rest. The German government foots the bill for the unemployed and for children. There are also limits on out-of-pocket expenses, so it’s rare for a German to go into debt because of medical bills.


There is no question the current U.S. system of health care is extraordinarily expensive



Germany manages to put its health-care dollars to relatively good use: For each $100 it spends on healthcare, it extends life by about four months, according to a recent analysis in the American Journal of Public Health. In the U.S., one of the worst-performing nations in the ranking, each $100 spent on healthcare resulted in only a couple of extra weeks of longevity.

http://www.theatlantic.com/health/ar...ermany/360133/

But OTOH being an executive with a U.S. health care provider is a good gig

Chief executive officers at Fortune 500 health insurance companies, who have opposed new regulations under the Affordable Care Act, emerged this month as one of the ACA’s greatest beneficiaries. Recently filed financial reports show that average compensation for these top nine health insurance CEOs rose by more than 19 percent in 2013, while several of the nation’s largest insurers more than doubled CEO pay.



So I guess whether or not the system works depends on your role in the system
__________________
“For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong.” - H.L. Mencken
Atlanta Dan is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Atlanta Dan For This Useful Post:
MasterOfPuppets (07-22-2014)
Old 07-22-2014, 01:02 PM   #26
Born2Steel
Team Captain
 
Born2Steel's Avatar
 

Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 700
Gender: Male
Member Number: 25772
Thanks: 664
Thanked 652 Times in 383 Posts
My Mood: Sneaky
Default Re: Obamacare faces another court threat — and this one could be fatal

Probably already posted but,....


WASHINGTON, July 22 (Reuters) - The U.S. Court of Appeals for the Fourth Circuit upheld a federal regulations that implemented subsidies that are vital to President Barack Obama's healthcare overhaul, in direct conflict with another ruling on the issue handed down earlier on Tuesday.

A three-judge panel unanimously said the law was ambiguous, and that it would defer to the IRS's determination that subsidies could go to individuals who purchased health insurance on both federal and state-run exchanges.

A separate panel from a federal appeals court in Washington on Tuesday morning said the IRS could not offer premium tax credits to people who purchase insurance through the federal insurance marketplace that serves most of the 8 million consumers who have signed up for private coverage for 2014.
__________________
Born2Steel is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Born2Steel For This Useful Post:
Atlanta Dan (07-22-2014)
Old 07-22-2014, 01:08 PM   #27
Born2Steel
Team Captain
 
Born2Steel's Avatar
 

Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 700
Gender: Male
Member Number: 25772
Thanks: 664
Thanked 652 Times in 383 Posts
My Mood: Sneaky
Default Re: Obamacare faces another court threat — and this one could be fatal

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vis View Post
You're employer can pay your car insurance. Next raise negotiation, bring it up.
Yes, understood. But my employer is not forced to offer car insurance. And if my employer did offer car insurance, I would not be fined for refusing. The part that "bothers" me, I guess, is controlling my health insurance pretty much dictates my other life choices. People stay at jobs because the benefits are good. People leave jobs because the benefits suck. If the government can force their health program upon us, we have no choice but to comply or not receive healthcare, or be fined. This, to me, is not a good idea. I know there are those that are without, and need help, but force is not the way we do things.
__________________
Born2Steel is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Born2Steel For This Useful Post:
MACH1 (07-22-2014)
Old 07-22-2014, 01:12 PM   #28
Vis
In Hoc
Supporter
 
Vis's Avatar
 

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: SC
Posts: 8,222
Gender: Male
Member Number: 5117
Thanks: 825
Thanked 5,925 Times in 2,852 Posts
My Mood: Tired
Default Re: Obamacare faces another court threat — and this one could be fatal

Quote:
Originally Posted by Born2Steel View Post
Yes, understood. But my employer is not forced to offer car insurance. And if my employer did offer car insurance, I would not be fined for refusing. The part that "bothers" me, I guess, is controlling my health insurance pretty much dictates my other life choices. People stay at jobs because the benefits are good. People leave jobs because the benefits suck. If the government can force their health program upon us, we have no choice but to comply or not receive healthcare, or be fined. This, to me, is not a good idea. I know there are those that are without, and need help, but force is not the way we do things.
Forget the employer part. The mandate is there to lower costs. It does that. It's not a good answer to the problem but it's better than before. We need single payer.
__________________


All generalizations are dangerous.
Vis is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Vis For This Useful Post:
Atlanta Dan (07-22-2014)
Old 07-22-2014, 04:03 PM   #29
Atlanta Dan
Resigned
Supporter
 
Atlanta Dan's Avatar
 

Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 15,356
Member Number: 728
Thanks: 2,628
Thanked 8,397 Times in 3,686 Posts
Default Re: Obamacare faces another court threat — and this one could be fatal

Quote:
Originally Posted by Born2Steel View Post
Probably already posted but,....


WASHINGTON, July 22 (Reuters) - The U.S. Court of Appeals for the Fourth Circuit upheld a federal regulations that implemented subsidies that are vital to President Barack Obama's healthcare overhaul, in direct conflict with another ruling on the issue handed down earlier on Tuesday.

A three-judge panel unanimously said the law was ambiguous, and that it would defer to the IRS's determination that subsidies could go to individuals who purchased health insurance on both federal and state-run exchanges.

A separate panel from a federal appeals court in Washington on Tuesday morning said the IRS could not offer premium tax credits to people who purchase insurance through the federal insurance marketplace that serves most of the 8 million consumers who have signed up for private coverage for 2014.
Link to the 4th Circuit decision here

http://apps.washingtonpost.com/g/pag...-burwell/1200/

Two Obama appointees and a Clinton recess appointee (later nominated by W and confirmed) in the 3-0 decision
__________________
“For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong.” - H.L. Mencken
Atlanta Dan is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Atlanta Dan For This Useful Post:
Born2Steel (07-22-2014)
Old 07-22-2014, 04:13 PM   #30
Born2Steel
Team Captain
 
Born2Steel's Avatar
 

Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 700
Gender: Male
Member Number: 25772
Thanks: 664
Thanked 652 Times in 383 Posts
My Mood: Sneaky
Default Re: Obamacare faces another court threat — and this one could be fatal

Quote:
Originally Posted by Atlanta Dan View Post
Link to the 4th Circuit decision here

http://apps.washingtonpost.com/g/pag...-burwell/1200/

Two Obama appointees and a Clinton recess appointee (later nominated by W and confirmed) in the 3-0 decision
46 pages of legaleeze? I'm not reading that. would stop making sense to me after page 1 anyway. Thanks for the vote of confidence though.
__________________
Born2Steel is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:22 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Shoutbox provided by vBShout v6.2.1 (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2014 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging v3.0.8 (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2014 DragonByte Technologies Ltd. Runs best on HiVelocity Hosting.
Navbar with Avatar by Motorradforum
no new posts