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Old 07-08-2014, 07:22 PM   #1
Kobethecat
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Default 2004 QB's: Rivers, Ben, Manning

This was written during last season. The author has some good points. I always had Ben as the best of the 2004 class of QB's, but could Rivers actually be the best?

Comparing Philip Rivers, Eli Manning, Ben Roethlisberger's Hall of Fame Chances

Is Philip Rivers a Hall of Fame quarterback?

While the critics are likely to jump the gun with a resounding "no," the question should be given much more serious consideration.

If either of his 2004 draft classmates, Eli Manning or Ben Roethlisberger make it into the Pro Football Hall of Fame—Rivers would most certainly deserve the nod.

Statistically, there is no comparison between Rivers and the other two.

He is more productive:

Rivers: 241.6 passing yards per-game.
Roethlisberger: 234.8 passing yards per-game.
Manning: 232.7 passing yards per-game.
He puts more points on the board:

Rivers: 5.4 touchdown percentage.
Roethlisberger: 5.0 touchdown percentage.
Manning: 4.7 touchdown percentage.
He's more accurate:

Rivers: 63.7 completion percentage.
Roethlisberger: 63.0 completion percentage.
Manning: 58.6 completion percentage.
He's more efficient:

Rivers: 6.94 adjusted net yards per attempt.
Roethlisberger: 6.43 adjusted net yards per attempt.
Manning: 5.94 adjusted net yards per attempt.
And he protects the ball better:

Rivers: 2.6 interception percentage.
Roethlisberger: 2.9 interception percentage.
Manning: 3.3 interception
percentage.
You'll note the trend of Rivers ranking first, Roethlisberger ranking second and Manning ranking third in all the above categories. It's ironic knowing that many people would rank the three quarterbacks in the opposite order.

They'd be wrong.

Because not only has Rivers performed at a higher level across the board, but he has managed to be able to do so with perhaps the weakest supporting cast of the three.

Manning has had Plaxico Burress, Victor Cruz, Hakeem Nicks and Mario Manningham to throw the ball to at various points in his career. Roethlisberger has had Hines Ward, Santonio Holmes and Mike Wallace catching his passes.

Roethlisberger rode the coattails of an elite defense to two championships while Manning did the same, albeit, with weaker defenses that stepped up to elite levels in the postseason.

Rivers has thrown to a trending-downward Antonio Gates and Vincent Jackson who began to develop before the Chargers let him go. Beyond that, there have been a lot of receivers who have never been notably productive in their entire careers.

When Rivers won the passing title in 2010, he became the first player in over 20 years to lead the NFL in passing while not having a single one of his receivers eclipse the 800-yard receiving mark.

That's 4,710 passing yards divided among 17 players to catch a pass from Rivers.

Gates led the entire team with only 782-yards receiving.

Rivers has managed to do things with less support than Manning and Roethlisberger. While many will be quick to mention "rings" in support of the latter two, it is no coincidence that they both rank below Rivers in terms of "individual performance" across the board.

Keep in mind, Roethlisberger won his first Super Bowl by completing nine of 21 passes (42.8) for 123 yards, zero touchdowns and two interceptions.

His passer rating in Super Bowl XL was a horrendous 22.6.

In his second Super Bowl season, Roethlisberger completed 59.7 percent of his passes for only 3,301 yards, 17 touchdowns and 15 interceptions.

His passer rating (80.1) and total QBR (46.82) both ranked 24th in the league in 2008.

And still, people wonder why he has been accused of coat-tailing his way to two championships.

During Manning's first Super Bowl season, he led the entire league with 20 interceptions. The QBR had yet to be developed, but Manning's abysmal 73.9 passer rating ranked 25th in the NFL.

Overlooking these serious deficiencies in individual contributions to those championships is to prove yourself incapable of rationally analyzing the game. Regardless of the end result, one cannot ignore the steps taken to get there.

2013 only continues to accentuate Rivers' dominance.

Coming into the season, some had dubbed Roethlisberger a "sleeper MVP candidate," which may seem laughable now.

Manning has not been much better, once again leading the league in interceptions (seven in only two games).

The stat-line isn't close.

Rivers ranks second to only Peyton Manning with a total QBR of 82.48—which is astounding considering that he came into 2013 with one of the weakest receiving corps in the league.

Manning ranks 23rd (43.92) and Roethlisberger ranks 28th (31.76).

Rivers is tied with Aaron Rodgers, ranking second only to Peyton Manning with seven touchdown passes.

Dating back to Week 13 of the 2012 season, Rivers boasts a 15-to-1 touchdown to interception ratio.

While his individual performance placed him ahead of both Manning and Roethlisberger years ago, his dominating performance in 2013 continues to separate Rivers from the rest of the 2004 draft class pack.
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Old 07-08-2014, 07:51 PM   #2
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Default Re: 2004 QB's: Rivers, Ben, Manning

Who wrote this shit?
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Old 07-08-2014, 07:53 PM   #3
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Default Re: 2004 QB's: Rivers, Ben, Manning

Fuck Phillip Rivers
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Old 07-08-2014, 08:05 PM   #4
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Default Re: 2004 QB's: Rivers, Ben, Manning

They always try and compare them just cuz of the draft class, its ridiculous. Stats are nice but 6yds a game here and 0.7% higher completion percentage doesn't mean shit
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Old 07-08-2014, 08:07 PM   #5
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Default Re: 2004 QB's: Rivers, Ben, Manning

Didn't bother reading this or validating your opinion because 2 rings, 3 superbowl appearances>0. Rivers can put up numbers but I'm taking Ben over Rivers anytime.
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Old 07-08-2014, 08:37 PM   #6
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Default Re: 2004 QB's: Rivers, Ben, Manning

Look, no credible football mind can cite stats when presenting a modern QB's Hall of Fame chances.

Literally every QB puts up gaudy stats in this pass-happy age (Mark Sanchez threw for 3k yards in back to back years).

Philip Rivers is a quality QB. Arguably even top-10 right now (if not cumulatively across the 10's).

But we're talking the Hall of Fame, not the hall of stats.

Without a ring or record breaking, Rivers is not getting in.
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Old 07-08-2014, 08:38 PM   #7
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Default Re: 2004 QB's: Rivers, Ben, Manning

Living in San Diego, I've seen tons of Chargers games. A few things...

1. Rivers falls behind/struggles in the first half... and then, puts up big numbers in the second half against prevent defenses.

2. Rivers throws away/fumbles away games. He is NOT clutch. Yes, he has fewer INTs, but as SuperBowl XXX showed: it's not the number of INTs, but "when" they occur.

3. Speaking of choking, Rivers isn't good in the playoffs. Period.

4. He had no supporting cast??? What??? He had LT and Gates.

5. He's the biggest crybaby in the NFL. I don't care if he throws for 75 TDs in a season, I wouldn't want him as my QB.
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Old 07-08-2014, 08:44 PM   #8
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Default Re: 2004 QB's: Rivers, Ben, Manning

Rivers has sucked dick whenever it mattered, see 2006. I guess the writer doesnt remember all the experts saying year after year that the chargers were far and away the most talented team in the NFL, yet they havent done jack shit in the playoffs.

I'm really surprised that @Kobethecat is bringing up an article that says how much better other players are than Ben. That never happens.
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Old 07-08-2014, 08:49 PM   #9
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Default Re: 2004 QB's: Rivers, Ben, Manning

Philip Rivers is more or less this generation's Boomer Esiason/Drew Bledsoe* and neither of those guys are in the Hall, nor will they ever be.

*And/or possibly Brian Sipe, but he was way before my time so I don't know for sure.
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Old 07-08-2014, 09:05 PM   #10
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Default Re: 2004 QB's: Rivers, Ben, Manning

Quote:
Roethlisberger rode the coattails of an elite defense to two championships
Yep, Roethlisberger had absolutely nothing to do with those titles. The defense just carried his sorry ass to two titles, just like they did with Mark Malone, Bubby Brister, Kordell Stewart, and Tommy Maddox.


... oh, wait.
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Wins are a team statistic, not a quarterback statistic.
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