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Old 07-18-2005, 11:45 AM   #41
Livinginthe past
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Default Re: Patriots are lucky!!!

Ok, well look, you as good as said in the other thread that you are not here to

a. learn anything or,

b. debate anything sensibly

This may well be the Blast furnace - but when it comes to Pats players and their contracts I think you will find Pats fans are the authority.
I wouldnt question any moves your Front Office made without listening to your retorts.

Maybe someone can clear this up for me.....Clevestinks or someone.

Is the idea of this thread to keep repeating a belief you hold - then when one someone challenges it - to put your fingers in your ears and go 'lalalalalalala' ??

If it is, then im not sure I see any real value.

regards

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Old 07-18-2005, 11:50 AM   #42
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Default Re: Patriots are lucky!!!

Sorry didn't read an answer in the load of crap you just typed, but do you think Brown will go the extra mile again as he did last year when he is getting a few million less than he did last year and knows he could get cut anyways? The few million is an approximate value, I am still trying to dig up the two contracts locked up at the Pats home office. Again, as the authority, could you provide us the numbers for the two contract years(as I and CS have asked)? To clarify again, my view is Brown is going to be a little hesitant to lay it all out again.
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Old 07-18-2005, 12:24 PM   #43
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Default Re: Patriots are lucky!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by ironcitychef
Sorry didn't read an answer in the load of crap you just typed, but do you think Brown will go the extra mile again as he did last year when he is getting a few million less than he did last year and knows he could get cut anyways? The few million is an approximate value, I am still trying to dig up the two contracts locked up at the Pats home office. Again, as the authority, could you provide us the numbers for the two contract years(as I and CS have asked)? To clarify again, my view is Brown is going to be a little hesitant to lay it all out again.

Brown is a weird guy. Not bad weird, good weird. He is the anti-modern day athlete. He is the kind of guy who will play harder if anything this year.

The fanbase was up in arms about him being cut. To quote the current phrase-o-the decade, "Don't hate the player, hate the game." One can't fault Pats managment for the business, fault the current NFL system. The have rules and they must be followed. Now sure there are harder cuts than others, but the cap is the cap. I know you've said we could have made it work, but I don't know the numbers and I have to resort to Pats managment on that.

And lastly, Troy is Pat through and through. He again was offered more money and a larger role with New Orleans. If it was about that he would have gone there. To quote Troy, Haslett was really aggressive in his pursuit.

It's not that I don't see your point, but I think you are approaching it from an outsiders POV. I hope this sheds more light on the situation. Brown is a dying breed.
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Old 07-18-2005, 12:54 PM   #44
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Default Re: Patriots are lucky!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by ironcitychef
Sorry didn't read an answer in the load of crap you just typed, but do you think Brown will go the extra mile again as he did last year when he is getting a few million less than he did last year and knows he could get cut anyways? The few million is an approximate value, I am still trying to dig up the two contracts locked up at the Pats home office. Again, as the authority, could you provide us the numbers for the two contract years(as I and CS have asked)? To clarify again, my view is Brown is going to be a little hesitant to lay it all out again.
Ho Hum, Ok firstly you say you 'didn't read an answer in the load of crap' I typed....perhaps the best way of getting an answer would be to actually ask a question IronCity.
I checked - there isn't a single question in the previous post.

Anyways here are the details you were after - Troy Brown was due to be paid a $2.5 million option bonus plus $2.5 million base salary making a total of 5 million for THIS year under the terms of his PREVIOUS contract.

Troy was paid approximately 2.25 million last year in total salary.

The NEW CONTRACT he has signed is a 1 year deal worth $765,000 including a $35,000 signing bonus. Accounting for a work-out bonus Browns salary cap charge for 2005 is going to be approx $805,000.

Since the team did not pick up the option on Browns contract in early March the team is not carrying over any 'dead money' from a previous deal.

There is also a possibility, that Browns deal could now qualify for the veterans minimum exception meaning it would count as only $455,000 toward this years cap.

Ok now for the math :

The difference between what Troy was due from his original contract and what he is getting from his NEW contract is approx $4.2million

The difference between what Troy got paid LAST YEAR compared to THIS year is approx $1.4million.

From all this you can see why his previous contract was completely unworkable - these contracts are often back-loaded with money the players never see anyway.

Right, now for the opinion bit - there is nothing in any article or interview I have read about Troy Brown that leads me to believe that he wouldn't do ANYTHING in his power in order to further the teams cause.

What you have to realise is that Troy bleeds red, white and blue - the Pats are the only team he has ever known and is likely to EVER know.
There was an offer on the table from New Orleans (by no means a bottom feeding team) to become their guaranteed 3rd reciever (he has recieved no such assurances from the Pats) and of course the extra money that goes with it.

What we read in the media about Troy being 'hung out to dry' is often mindless 'off season' speculation - there was more than likely a continuous dialogue betwen the team and himself regarding his situation.

If Troy felt that he was being disrespected by the Pats treatment of him he could have easily taken the money on offer to him at the Saints or another possible team if they had come in.

I hope this answers your question satisfactorily.

regards

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Old 07-19-2005, 10:33 AM   #45
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Default Re: Patriots are lucky!!!

Ahem...thank you. While I think he is missing a little more money because they didn't want to pick up the option, we have established is is making less while he did more than anyone. I just feel that your challenges this year are not your rosters or positions cause you are stacked, but much like Shannahan always feeling he can make a rb out of anyone, all your decisions will come out as gold. You may end up being right on again on this, but I know it will be a thing to watch about how you all keep either the team together or try to reload.

PS - while not bottomfeeding, isn't a team rumored to be moving to LA a bit of a risk for a player used to such stability?
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Old 07-19-2005, 04:37 PM   #46
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Default Re: Patriots are lucky!!!

I don`t doubt Troys loyalty to his team. We have a couple players like that ourselves, Bettis and Ward.
And I know most players with long contracts, that takes them into thier thirties, don`t always expect to finish the original contract. But Browns, does seem to be one helluva pay cut. If New Orleans offer wasn`t way , way more then I wouldn`t have left either. I was surprised to hear that there wasn`t any other offers.
Like I said before, "The Pats are Lucky that he decided to come back" mainly as a team leader. You cannot put a price tag on what he probably does for the younger players.
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Old 07-20-2005, 06:04 AM   #47
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Default Re: Patriots are lucky!!!

Yeah, you are right of course, it is one helluva pay cut. I do believe, however, that Troy is making a nice slice of action on the side from local companies. I couldn't say how much - but probably enough to negate a move to New Orleans.
You cant have too many veteran team leaders - the team seems packed with them.

ITS PIG-SKIN BABY!

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Old 07-20-2005, 10:46 AM   #48
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Default Re: Patriots are lucky!!!

To kinda change up the topic LITP, what do you think a player would have to do on the PATS to get that bonus that Troy didn't do? Just be younger or such? I think that is what sits uneasy with me. He did double duty cause he had a shot at that bonus(and true to help the team win), but now players know that not only are their contracts not a sure thing, but the criteria for that bonus money isn't so easy either. Just think it sucks cause those low $$$ players got bonuses based on # of plays invloved or whatever from the NFL and I don't think Troy was in that either. He should get a cut over a rookie that started half the season, yeah? Also if the huge contract is out cause of age or ability, you saying only 35K of bonus thank you money? If I was a NE player with a contract coming up I would double check my fine print before buying that car right? Was it you or DW that said losing the AFCC does eliminate all that roster bonus money problems! LOL.
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Old 07-20-2005, 11:15 AM   #49
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Default Re: Patriots are lucky!!!

That bonus was part of an old contract of which this year was optional.
The Patriots decided not take take up that option because it would have cost them $5mil altogther.
The fact is that Troy done double duty because he is a team player and also because he has slipped down the WR hierarchy at the Pats - he is probably 4th/5th receiver right now.
Its impossible to be sure, but had Troy refused to do double duty I really doubt if he would have seen enough playing time as a receiver to hit his bonus targets anyway - our injury probs at WR were not quite so pressing, and BB would not have been too impressed with a player who has the ability to help the team and refuses.

What really lost Troy his bonus was in fact our injury crisis at DB.

Im sure that Belichick and Pioli have some complex formula balancing the needs of the team, the potential play time of the player and available cash, to work out exactly what they can pay a player.

Its good Troy is back at a discount rate...but do we really need him? No probably not - and certainly not at the value of his previous contract.
The odds of us being caught so short in the secondary again are pretty small - therefore we would have been paying too much money for a what is basically 4th/5th receiver.

This sounds harsh but thats how they operate.

On your second point, I agree that this could come back and bite the Pats in the ass - if players perceive the Head Office's strategy to be unfair then they will attempt to play hard ball.

Two things are currently stopping this happening

1. The Patriots keep winning - the thought of another ring is enough to keep alot of players pacified when it comes to contract time.

2. We have alot of strength and depth at key positions - this weakens the bargaining power of the player - see Richard Seymour.

Speaking of Seymour - he could hold out I guess, but we are shooting in the dark on this one as I have no idea what sort of negotiations are happening.

The problem with a successful side is that everyone wants a raise - in the salary cap era not everyone can have one.

ITS PIG-SKIN BABY!

NM

Last edited by Livinginthe past; 07-20-2005 at 11:23 AM.
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Old 07-20-2005, 03:33 PM   #50
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Default Re: Patriots are lucky!!!

I do agree with ICC here. If anyone deserved to be treated better, it would have to be Troy Brown. double duty when his team needed it. I`m not a Pats fan , but I probably will root for Troy brown, not against the Steelers. Because he is what football should be about.

Someone we haven`t mentioned in any thread is Tim Brown and his retiring. I didn`t realize that he is also along the line of a Troy Brown, or Jerome Bettis. After seeing some of the specials on this guy. He is a class act.
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