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Old 05-21-2007, 08:47 AM   #111
Mosca
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Default Re: Congress Must Cut Off Bush Family War Profits Part 1

Yelling about Clinton either pro or con does nothing to help us solve our problems NOW. Whether you believe Bush is the second coming of Washington or the Antichrist, it has no bearing on thinking about how we should proceed with the dilemma facing us TODAY; that the current strategy isn't working and that simplistic exit strategies may end up even worse, and that we very likely need to negotiate with people who have an advantage in not negotiating.

We can see each other's points when we stick to the issues, friends. Although we are far, far from the action, and have absolutely no chance of actually affecting the course of history, we can share how and why we believe.

Anyone who thinks we should up and split hasn't been listening to the very valid point that our presence there (regardless of how it happened) is the only thing keeping the region from exploding.

And anyone who thinks that what we are currently doing is working hasn't been paying attention to the fact that nothing is changing and we can't stay there doing this forever (to put the argument at its most basic and incontrovertible level).

Which is why there is a dilemma; there are currently only two choices, and neither of them lead to victory. We need a third choice. (Would that make it a trilemma?) The stakes are too high for anything other than victory, and we have no idea of what victory in this sense would look like, let alone how to get there.
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Old 05-21-2007, 08:49 AM   #112
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Default Re: Congress Must Cut Off Bush Family War Profits Part 1

Like I said, classic Salem witch hunt on Clinton and everyone knows it . . . The neo-righties wanted him out so badly they would spend millions upon millions to get anything they could on him. If Clinton was charged for abusing his power for sex and it was considered a "very"criminal act as a leader, I guess Bush abusing his power for personal profits and misusing our military assets which led to thousands of our own soldiers dying is a misdemeanor eah?

This comparison would equate to giving the jay-walker a life sentence while allowing the armed gunman that robbed the bank and shot the guard to say two "Our Father's" and some community service work.
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Old 05-21-2007, 09:15 AM   #113
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Default Re: Congress Must Cut Off Bush Family War Profits Part 1

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Originally Posted by Blitzburgh View Post
Like I said, classic Salem witch hunt on Clinton and everyone knows it . . . The neo-righties wanted him out so badly they would spend millions upon millions to get anything they could on him. If Clinton was charged for abusing his power for sex and it was considered a "very"criminal act as a leader, I guess Bush abusing his power for personal profits and misusing our military assets which led to thousands of our own soldiers dying is a misdemeanor eah?

This comparison would equate to giving the jay-walker a life sentence while allowing the armed gunman that robbed the bank and shot the guard to say two "Our Father's" and some community service work.
Are you serious?...you are comparing an obvious DOCUMENTED...ADMITTED....breaking of the law...to your disagreement about this war....Please...all emotion aside...what LAW has Bush broken?....enlighten all of us...please keep it to 1) Facts ....2)actual crimes committed ...since you are the one who used the jaw-walking/bank robbery analogy.


Whitewater...was a witchhunt....Bush/Bin Laden connections are a witch hunt....Clintons impeachement cannot be compared to a witchhunt by any sane peson.
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Old 05-21-2007, 09:21 AM   #114
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Default Re: Congress Must Cut Off Bush Family War Profits Part 1

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Originally Posted by Blitzburgh View Post
Like I said, classic Salem witch hunt on Clinton and everyone knows it . . . The neo-righties wanted him out so badly they would spend millions upon millions to get anything they could on him. If Clinton was charged for abusing his power for sex and it was considered a "very"criminal act as a leader, I guess Bush abusing his power for personal profits and misusing our military assets which led to thousands of our own soldiers dying is a misdemeanor eah?

This comparison would equate to giving the jay-walker a life sentence while allowing the armed gunman that robbed the bank and shot the guard to say two "Our Father's" and some community service work.
Yeah, so what. It's a rough business, politics, and Clinton played (and still plays) hardball with the best of them. Hoisted on his own petard? Sure. Next.

Name me a politician who HASN'T abused power for personal profits, anywhere in history, anywhere in the world. Tell you what; I'll grant you Mohatmas Ghandi. Now name me the next politician who hasn't profited somehow from being in office. Even saintly Jimmy Carter has used his status as an ex-president to sell his books and promote his foundations.

Like it or not, Bush is president and we have to figure out how to maximize our position FROM THE CURRENT CONDITIONS. Tossing on about war crimes and stolen elections is unhelpful.


Tom
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Old 05-21-2007, 09:25 AM   #115
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Default Re: Congress Must Cut Off Bush Family War Profits Part 1

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.

Name me a politician who HASN'T abused power for personal profits, anywhere in history, anywhere in the world.
William Henry Harrison
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Old 05-21-2007, 11:48 AM   #116
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Default Re: Congress Must Cut Off Bush Family War Profits Part 1

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Yeah, so what.

Name me a politician who HASN'T abused power for personal profits, anywhere in history, anywhere in the world. Tell you what; I'll grant you Mohatmas Ghandi. Now name me the next politician who hasn't profited somehow from being in office. Even saintly Jimmy Carter has used his status as an ex-president to sell his books and promote his foundations.

Like it or not, Bush is president and we have to figure out how to maximize our position FROM THE CURRENT CONDITIONS. Tossing on about war crimes and stolen elections is unhelpful.


Tom

Just like a neo-righty to immediately ask a question in order to deflect responsibility for addressing one. "Tossing on about war-crimes and stolen elections" as you put it is our patriotic responsibility as Americans pal ... and let me tell you "asleep at the wheel" Bushie ball washing crowd something else .... this American, along with a few million others won't be happy until both Bush and Cheney are strung up by their nuts for the death, fiscal devistation, and international embarassment they've caused our countrymen over the past 6 years.

You 'ain't seen 'nothin yet my friend .... You can sip your "let's just forget about how bad Bush has been and move on" kool aid all you want, but I'm all about accountability when it comes to getting our own killed for a personal agenda.


I'm done here ....
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Old 05-21-2007, 12:12 PM   #117
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Default Re: Congress Must Cut Off Bush Family War Profits Part 1

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Originally Posted by Blitzburgh View Post
Just like a neo-righty to immediately ask a question in order to deflect responsibility for addressing one. "Tossing on about war-crimes and stolen elections" as you put it is our patriotic responsibility as Americans pal ... and let me tell you "asleep at the wheel" Bushie ball washing crowd something else .... this American, along with a few million others won't be happy until both Bush and Cheney are strung up by their nuts for the death, fiscal devistation, and international embarassment they've caused our countrymen over the past 6 years.

You 'ain't seen 'nothin yet my friend .... You can sip your "let's just forget about how bad Bush has been and move on" kool aid all you want, but I'm all about accountability when it comes to getting our own killed for a personal agenda.


I'm done here ....
MOSCA????...a neo-righty?????
....and he threw in the "kool-aid" comment....

I KNOW there are some liberals, moderates and some conservatives who are against the war... who make a good arguement....but its this type of shallow "pillow case full of shredded wheat" rhetoric that makes it me wonder which is the majority on the left....those who have ethical legitimate heart-felt arguements...or those who give these baseless...factless...tirades based on immature name-calling... hate-filled...emotion towards our president....and for the record....I asked specific questions that were completely ignored.

This is ....what?...the third person in this thread who has resorted this same tactic...when faced with logical courteous debate.

Kudos to Mosca for not responding in kind
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Old 05-21-2007, 12:35 PM   #118
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Default Re: Congress Must Cut Off Bush Family War Profits Part 1

Whatever snaggle-tooth .... Your propensity to want to immediately discredit or paint those with opposing views as shallow or baseless are very Hannity'esq. I know your ilk .... your tactic is to ask a question in place of an answer as a means to not have to answer for your leaders actions and behaviors. Always trying to discredit the opinion of others as you subjectively cherry-pick what you believe to be fact over fiction.

Put down the soap and move away from GW's testicles for a moment. Perhaps it will give you some added perspective on the subject that may actually be something other than what Faux News is telling you.
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Old 05-21-2007, 12:42 PM   #119
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Default Re: Congress Must Cut Off Bush Family War Profits Part 1

OK folks - I know this is an emotionally charged issue, but please tone it down a bit. Thanks.
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Old 05-21-2007, 12:43 PM   #120
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Default Re: Congress Must Cut Off Bush Family War Profits Part 1

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Originally Posted by Blitzburgh View Post
Whatever snaggle-tooth .... Your propensity to want to immediately discredit or paint those with opposing views as shallow or baseless are very Hannity'esq. I know your ilk .... your tactic is to ask a question in place of an answer as a means to not have to answer for your leaders actions and behaviors. Always trying to discredit the opinion of others as you subjectively cherry-pick what you believe to be fact over fiction.

Put down the soap and move away from GW's testicles for a moment. Perhaps it will give you some added perspective on the subject that may actually be something other than what Faux News is telling you.
Unlike some..you'll not hear me talking about others testicles and calling names in order to make a point....why dont you look back over the posts...and see that it is ironically YOU who are asking questions (which we answer) and divert the questions asked of you... I did give a detailed answer to your accusations...(to which you have yet to respond)..and in rebuttal I asked a question...(to which you have yet to answer)

...so how about it...can you bring your debate out of the gutter and join us for a legitimate debate about this?
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