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An important history lesson for you TRUE Steelers fans!

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Old 05-24-2007, 11:32 PM   #21
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Default Re: The Republicans have sold out America.

Denial ... Denial


Funny how those that have their very foundational system of values and beliefs attacked or discredited as being built on faulty logic ... immediately shut the outside world out as if there are no other opinions.
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Old 05-24-2007, 11:35 PM   #22
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Default Re: The Republicans have sold out America.

[QUOTE=Atlanta Dan;250513]Take this poll for what it is worth.


Two-thirds of those polled say illegal immigrants who have a clean employment record and no criminal history should gain legal status as the bill proposes: by paying at least $5,000 in fines and fees and receiving a renewable four-year visa.


If a majority of the country thinks it is okie-dokie to buy your way out of illegal immigration by paying a $5000 fine as long as you are not a criminal, I have completely lost touch with majority opinion in this country.This is insane!

AD, Thank You for the common sense. If Bush is pushing this, I might as well vote for Ted "Russia Rocks!!!!" Kennedy.
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Old 05-24-2007, 11:40 PM   #23
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Default Re: The Republicans have sold out America.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tony hipchest View Post
we could build the american version of "The Great Wall of China" but unfortunately we would need illegal foreign manpower to accomplish such a task.

catch 22

Sometimes the right thing to do isn't the easiest.
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Old 05-24-2007, 11:44 PM   #24
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Default Re: The Republicans have sold out America.

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Originally Posted by revefsreleets View Post
And how exactly do we arrest 20,000,000 people and send them home? And how will we pay for it? And who will take the yucky jobs that these people do? And how will we keep more from coming in while we are busy getting rid of the ones who are here now? And what do we do if 20,000,000 people start rioting? Shoot them? Barring shooting them, and not being able to ship them home, do we imprison them? If so, what do we do with our current prisoners?

I'd say it's pretty complicated.
You're right, why not just change our country name to Mexico!
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Old 05-25-2007, 12:32 AM   #25
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Default Re: The Republicans have sold out America.

Here we go. Now you want to blame immigration reform on the Republicans?? OK, so they let em all in to begin with for cheap labor, but nobody said anything about making everyone a citizen. (Thats the brainstorm of your friendly Democratic left wing, limp dick, bleeding heart liberals, aka Hillary C. & Osama bin Chicago)

Focus people, this is merely a distraction. Can we stay pissed long enough about the cluster f*@k in Iraq and the ties between big oil and the rep party to force a change in that policy????

BTW, I've officially swithched my affiliation from the Republican Party to the Indep/Pat Paulsen for president ticket.
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Old 05-25-2007, 07:34 AM   #26
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Default Re: The Republicans have sold out America.

Regarding parties...I find it interesting that there are only 2 dominant parties in this country. George Washington, in his farewell speech for his final term as president, discouraged a two party political system and foresaw the partisan politics that would emerge from it. That's why I will always remain an independant. I like to think outside of the kool aid drinking parties. The far right scares me...and the far left REALLY, REALLY scares me.

So I sit just right of center!

Immigration policy is easy. If it's illegal, it should be punished according to the law, not rewarded. At the very least, we shouldn't be paying their medical bills or paying for them to sit in our prisons.
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Old 05-25-2007, 11:26 AM   #27
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Default Re: The Republicans have sold out America.

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Originally Posted by Jeremy View Post
[/B]

Yes there is, it's called enforcing the laws on the books. I'm so tired of people trying to make this is a complicated issue. If you're here without a green card/visa/etc, you're here illegally and shoudl be arressted and sent back to wherever it is that you came from. What the Republicans are trying to do right now is win the hearts and minds of the Latino community by buying them off with this bill. It's a disgrace.
Strange....as I recall the Dems were saying that what Bush was doing was "too little" and they were calling for all out citizenship of illegal immigrants.


Quote:
...............Both Lieberman and Gephardt have sponsored bills that would allow all illegal immigrants in the country to earn legalization, if they have been in the country working for five years and pass a background check.

That "earned legalization" approached is also endorsed by the front-runner in the Democratic president race, Howard Dean.

"My view is if you've lived here for a significant period of time -- whether you're undocumented or documented -- and you have contributed to your community, you have never been arrested or gone to jail or any of that stuff, and you've paid your taxes and worked hard, that you ought to have a path to earn legalization of citizenship and so forth," Dean said at an appearance in Iowa.

Senate Minority Leader Tom Daschle, D-South Dakota, said he "absolutely" supported the goal of legalizing undocumented workers. ....CNN.COM

Quote:
Top congressional Democrats formally unveiled an immigration plan Tuesday that they say is as much about legalizing millions of undocumented workers as it is about forcing the Republicans to deliver specifics about a guest-worker proposal pushed by President Bush.

"I wish President Bush would stop talking about his immigration 'principles' and talk about specifics," said Rep. Luis Gutierrez, D-Ill., co-sponsor of the Democrats' immigration bill. "Our bill is about specifics, and voters can judge for themselves which proposal would truly reform our nation's immigration laws."

The Democrats' bill, dubbed the Safe, Orderly, Legal Visas and Enforcement Act, would allow illegal immigrants to qualify for a green card or permanent legal residence if they proved they had lived in the United States for five consecutive years and had worked here at least two years.

Earlier this year, Bush proposed a guest-worker program that would give millions of undocumented immigrants temporary legal status for six years or longer. But they would not be eligible for permanent residency.

The plan hasn't been drafted into legislation, but officials say it represents a reasonable compromise between those who want to shut the country's doors to immigrants and those who want to swing the doors open.

The Democrats are pushing the administration, banking that millions of Hispanic voters will view immigration as a make-or-break issue in this year's presidential election.

"Our bill makes the debate over immigration very clear to voters in November," said Rep. Bob Menendez, D-N.J., another co-sponsor of the bill. "It's about choosing to support a proposal that would legalize undocumented immigrants or one that seeks to deport them."......azcentral.com
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Old 05-25-2007, 11:35 AM   #28
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Default Re: The Republicans have sold out America.

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Originally Posted by Blitzburgh View Post
Agree with the title of this thread ....

They're the type you have to ask to leave the wedding reception because they get too drunk on power and money.
..and again dont let the facts get in the way of your debate........just use emotion...and nasty remarks to drown out the articles I just posted....or better yet..take the initiative to do a little internet search and see how twisted it is to claim Bush and the republicans welcom the legalization of illegal immigrants over the democrats.
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Old 05-25-2007, 11:48 AM   #29
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Default Re: The Republicans have sold out America.

It is a bipartisan compromise - neither party wants to be tagged as being soft on illegals or lose the Hispanic vote by being accused of immigrant bashing so it is not a Democratic or Republican bill.

Here is a link to an article describing the negotiations.

President Bush helped plant the seeds of this year’s negotiations on Jan. 8, at a White House event celebrating the fifth anniversary of the No Child Left Behind Act. Mr. Bush pulled aside Senator Kennedy, and they went into a room off the Oval Office to talk about immigration.

A month later, Senator Jon Kyl, a conservative Republican from Arizona who would become an important figure in striking the deal, began meeting with other Republicans and administration officials to explore ways to find a legislative response to an issue with potent political and humanitarian ramifications.

When those talks progressed far enough, the Republicans on March 28 invited in Democrats like Mr. Kennedy, a longtime advocate of immigration changes, and Senators Ken Salazar of Colorado and Robert Menendez of New Jersey. What followed was a series of meetings around the Capitol, typically on Tuesday, Wednesday and Thursday nights, as the lawmakers, staff members, White House officials and two or three cabinet secretaries immersed themselves in immigration rules as part of unusually direct high-level negotiations.


http://www.nytimes.com/2007/05/19/wa...and%20Refugees

I disagree with the amnesty provisions, but something has to be done. The bankruptcy of the current system and current bill is summed up in this op-ed piece:

As the most attractive land for would-be immigrants, America has the equivalent of the first 100 picks in the NBA draft. Yet through lax border control and sheer inertia, it allows those slots to be filled by (with apologies to Bill Buckley) the first 100 names in the San Salvador phone book....

Enforcement at the border is all bureaucratic inputs and fancy gadgets: principally, a doubling of the Border Patrol to 28,000, lots of high-tech sensors and four unmanned aerial vehicles (UAVs). And 370 miles of fence -- half of what Congress had mandated last year.

The amnesty is triggered upon presidential certification that these bureaucratic benchmarks are met -- regardless of what is actually happening at the border. What vacuous nonsense

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...d=opinionsbox1

Last edited by Atlanta Dan; 05-25-2007 at 12:04 PM.
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Old 05-25-2007, 02:28 PM   #30
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Default Re: The Republicans have sold out America.

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Originally Posted by lamberts-lost-tooth View Post
..and again dont let the facts get in the way of your debate........just use emotion...and nasty remarks to drown out the articles I just posted....or better yet..take the initiative to do a little internet search and see how twisted it is to claim Bush and the republicans welcom the legalization of illegal immigrants over the democrats.
What?

Bush is the one pushing this bill in press conferences! How is that not the Republican Party pushing this terrible piece of crap legislation?
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