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Old 05-25-2007, 02:31 PM   #41
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Default Re: The Republicans have sold out America.

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Originally Posted by Atlanta Dan View Post
Good call T.H.

According to the Gallup Poll, Bush has a tracking average approval rating of 35% for 2007, which breaks out with tracking average approval ratings of 75% among Republicans and 9% (I am surprised it is that high) among Democrats.

Over the course of his administration, Bush's job approval ratings among Republicans have only fallen 20 points from his high point in 2002 to the latest average, his lowest, in the first five months of this year. By comparison, Bush's approval rating has dropped 40 points among independents and 45 points among Democrats.

http://www.galluppoll.com/content/default.aspx?ci=27658

Maybe the Republicans who were polled thought they were being asked about the job performance of W's Dad.

All true, but it is real hard to judge a sitting president as many policies and laws really aren't fully felt for years after they leave office. I would say give it 20 years before you look back and judge what Clinton and Bush have done over the last 10 or 15 years.

Abraham Lincoln wasn't very popular while he was in office. In fact he was hated by many. Only years later were his policies and decisions really dissected.
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Old 05-25-2007, 02:34 PM   #42
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Default Re: The Republicans have sold out America.

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All true, but it is real hard to judge a sitting president as many policies and laws really aren't fully felt for years after they leave office. I would say give it 20 years before you look back and judge what Clinton and Bush have done over the last 10 or 15 years.

Abraham Lincoln wasn't very popular while he was in office. In fact he was hated by many. Only years later were his policies and decisions really dissected.
Lincoln is still hated by a lot of people.
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Old 05-25-2007, 02:49 PM   #43
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Default Re: The Republicans have sold out America.

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All true, but it is real hard to judge a sitting president as many policies and laws really aren't fully felt for years after they leave office. I would say give it 20 years before you look back and judge what Clinton and Bush have done over the last 10 or 15 years.

Abraham Lincoln wasn't very popular while he was in office. In fact he was hated by many. Only years later were his policies and decisions really dissected.
I agree. The poll did not ask whether the voters thought history would approve of W; they were asked whether they currently approve of his performance.

Everything can change over time; Harding is generally regarded as a rotten President who was wildly popular at the time of his death whereas W is constantly comparing himself to Truman, who was at rock bottom when he left office but is regarded today as having been an excellent President. OTOH, Carter was seen to be a wretched President when he left office and his reputation has stayed in the dumpster.

My guess is W will be regarded more like LBJ than Truman in terms of wartime Presidents, but who knows. Decisions are being made today for which the consequences will not play out for decades.

As a perhaps apocryphal story goes, during the 1960s, a delegation of French politicians visited Beijing and met the Chinese premier, Zhou Enlai. One of the Frenchmen asked the premier what he thought about the impact of the French Revolution on the course of world history. Zhou Enlai responded: "You know, I think it is too early to tell."
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Old 05-25-2007, 03:07 PM   #44
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Default Re: The Republicans have sold out America.

No surprise that Bush compares himself to the most redneck President we've ever had.
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Old 05-25-2007, 03:48 PM   #45
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Default Re: The Republicans have sold out America.

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we could build the american version of "The Great Wall of China" but unfortunately we would need illegal foreign manpower to accomplish such a task.

catch 22
tony,i don't think you realize how many AMERICAN construction worker are put out of work by illegals. i know because i'm one of them. it burns my ass everytime i here "there only doing jobs that americans don't wanna do"....BULLSHIT!!!!. on my last visit to the unemployment office,i passed a construction site and seen no less than 20 mexicans doing my job !!! i live in a small town of about 20,000 where jobs are pretty scarce, so for myself and local contractors to miss out on jobs because an outside contractor can afford to under bid the job because they hire illegals .....well lets just say it doesn't sit to well with me.
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Old 05-25-2007, 04:50 PM   #46
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Default Re: The Republicans have sold out America.

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tony,i don't think you realize how many AMERICAN construction worker are put out of work by illegals. i know because i'm one of them. it burns my ass everytime i here "there only doing jobs that americans don't wanna do"....BULLSHIT!!!!. on my last visit to the unemployment office,i passed a construction site and seen no less than 20 mexicans doing my job !!! i live in a small town of about 20,000 where jobs are pretty scarce, so for myself and local contractors to miss out on jobs because an outside contractor can afford to under bid the job because they hire illegals .....well lets just say it doesn't sit to well with me.
my post was total sarcasm. i live in a small town 90 miles from the boarder and we are in the middle of a construction boom to accomodate the growth of our local air force base. i definitely see (and agree with) what youre saying.

but as an employer who has had atleast 50 aliens come and go (all legal or permanent residents) i have literally and figuratively seen both sides of the fence. i would be out of work if i tried to hire cheap labor and undercut other bidders, though. of course government contracts are scrutinized and policed much more than non government contract jobs (especially in construction).

theres the stereotype that the illegals only come over to be gardeners in hollywood hills or pick lettuce in the arizona boarderlands. (this stereotype is excellent for the business owners who hire them in other higher paying industries for minimum wage). i recognize that aliens take legitimate work from hard working americans and think it sucks.

i also recognize that when the price of gas, milk and cigarettes has doubled in the past 12 years and minimum wage has stayed the same, somethings got to give. the risk is simply too rewarding for business owners to take the chance and hire cheap illegal labor for someone to go out and bust their balls and break their back for "minimum wage" or cheaper.
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Old 05-25-2007, 05:05 PM   #47
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Default Re: The Republicans have sold out America.

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Tired or not, he's yours. Plus you have Trent Lott, Arlen Specter, John McCain, John Kyl, etc lined up behind this bill like a chorus line. The Repubs want the Latino vote so bad they can taste it.
Don't remind us.

Another thing is, don't you think the Democrats want there share of votes as well? After all next year they're trying to keep control of both houses of congress while trying to take the white house.

I personally want a change in Illegal Immigration like some people, but I want to make sure it works FOR ALL.
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Old 05-25-2007, 07:07 PM   #48
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Default Re: The Republicans have sold out America.

Which all goes back to this being a complicated issue, but somehow I became a bleeding hearted lefty for pointing out that it's wrong to shoot 20,000,000 for being where we allowed them to be in the first place.

This legislation has boiled down to be being better than nothing, which was exactly what we had before it. I think it's crappy, too, but the logistics of removing 20,000,000 people has moved beyond what we are capable of doing.
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Old 05-25-2007, 07:38 PM   #49
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Default Re: The Republicans have sold out America.

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Which all goes back to this being a complicated issue, but somehow I became a bleeding hearted lefty for pointing out that it's wrong to shoot 20,000,000 for being where we allowed them to be in the first place.

This legislation has boiled down to be being better than nothing, which was exactly what we had before it. I think it's crappy, too, but the logistics of removing 20,000,000 people has moved beyond what we are capable of doing.
We never allowed them to be here. They were here because they were breaking the law.
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Old 05-25-2007, 07:53 PM   #50
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Default Re: The Republicans have sold out America.

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We never allowed them to be here. They were here because they were breaking the law.
Um, if we didn't allow them to be here, then we must have done something to remove them, right? Then why are there 20,000,000 illegals here now? It could be that it was a really complicated issue that nobody could exactly figure out how to tackle, right?
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