The Republicans have sold out America.

[Jeremy]

Originally Posted by revefsreleets

Um, if we didn't allow them to be here, then we must have done something to remove them, right? Then why are there 20,000,000 illegals here now? It could be that it was a really complicated issue that nobody could exactly figure out how to tackle, right?

Or it could be the bleeding hearts didn't let law enforcement do their jobs.

[revefsreleets]

Shoot them? I give up.

[Preacher]

Originally Posted by revefsreleets

Um, if we didn't allow them to be here, then we must have done something to remove them, right? Then why are there 20,000,000 illegals here now? It could be that it was a really complicated issue that nobody could exactly figure out how to tackle, right?

I think your point falls under the.... lying by OMISSION type of argument. There are two ways to lie.. Committing the lie, and Omitting something... and therefore lying. The second is easier, but is still lying.

I think your saying the same logic applies. We could have actively allowed them to come, by passing laws to that effect, or passively allowed them to come, by prosecuting the law to its fullest. Either way, it is still allowing them to come.

Your right. It was our fault in that sense. However, that doesn't negate the fact that the law itself was still violated and thus the action was still illegal. Whether we accept the illegal action and deem it legal is what is being argued now.

Just wanted to get in those two cents...

[Jeremy]

Originally Posted by revefsreleets

Shoot them? I give up.

That's exactly what the rest of the country wants to do by granting them amnesty. Tell you what, when one of these hard working immigrants commits a crime against you or a member of your family you'll understand how I feel about the issue.

[tony hipchest]

Originally Posted by Jeremy

That's exactly what the rest of the country wants to do by granting them amnesty. Tell you what, when one of these hard working immigrants commits a crime against you or a member of your family you'll understand how I feel about the issue.

so out of approx 300,000,000 people living in the states, approx 20,000,000 are illegal. are you saying that more than 1 out of every 15 crimes is commited by an illegal alien?

of course all are commiting crime by just being here, but for the sake of debate, i am suggesting that i am just as fearful of an american criminal as i am of an illegal alien criminal.

[SteelCityMan786]

Originally Posted by tony hipchest

so out of approx 300,000,000 people living in the states, approx 20,000,000 are illegal. are you saying that more than 1 out of every 15 crimes is commited by an illegal alien?

of course all are commiting crime by just being here, but for the sake of debate, i am suggesting that i am just as fearful of an american criminal as i am of an illegal alien criminal.

We had a case of that in Altoona. An illegal immigrant from Mexico went on a murder spree. I think he was jailed and put on death penalty. Not sure what the sentence was.

[Jeremy]

Originally Posted by tony hipchest

so out of approx 300,000,000 people living in the states, approx 20,000,000 are illegal. are you saying that more than 1 out of every 15 crimes is commited by an illegal alien?

of course all are commiting crime by just being here, but for the sake of debate, i am suggesting that i am just as fearful of an american criminal as i am of an illegal alien criminal.

I've known too many people here in Tucson who have had property stolen, been mugged, etc by illegals to feel safe in any area where the immigrant population is a large one. I'm sure that bleeding heart will come back around and call me racist, but I know what I know.

The one and only reason I'd think of supporting this bill would be so illegals would have to give out their real addresses so police could so their jobs and hospitals could get their money for services rendered.

I'm out of this now......it's too emotional for me and I might write something I'll regret.

[MasterOfPuppets]

actually there's a very simple solution to the problem. why are they here?....$$$$$. who's breaking the law besides the illegals? the people that give them jobs!!! so why not go after the root of the problem! if uncle sam started handing out serious punishments to employers found with illegals on thier payroll, like loosing thier business liscence along with seizing assets...this would be a non issue, becauce they would leave voluntarily if life was no better here than in there country. do rats take up vacancy where there is no food supply? this is a freakin no brainer solution!

[lamberts-lost-tooth]

Originally Posted by Jeremy

What?

Bush is the one pushing this bill in press conferences! How is that not the Republican Party pushing this terrible piece of crap legislation?

My point wa that it is wrong to "label" the Republicans as seeling this country out when the Dems are far softer on this issue....You seemed to have missed the post that explained what I was saying...let me try again....and then YOU can decide who is softer on Illegal immigrants....Please read the following stories from online news sources.

]...............Both Lieberman and Gephardt have sponsored bills that would allow all illegal immigrants in the country to earn legalization, if they have been in the country working for five years and pass a background check.

That "earned legalization" approached is also endorsed by the front-runner in the Democratic president race, Howard Dean.
"My view is if you've lived here for a significant period of time -- whether you're undocumented or documented -- and you have contributed to your community, you have never been arrested or gone to jail or any of that stuff, and you've paid your taxes and worked hard, that you ought to have a path to earn legalization of citizenship and so forth," Dean said at an appearance in Iowa.

Senate Minority Leader Tom Daschle, D-South Dakota, said he "absolutely" supported the goal of legalizing undocumented workers. ....CNN.COM

...Top congressional Democrats formally unveiled an immigration plan Tuesday that they say is as much about legalizing millions of undocumented workers as it is about forcing the Republicans to deliver specifics about a guest-worker proposal pushed by President Bush.

"I wish President Bush would stop talking about his immigration 'principles' and talk about specifics," said Rep. Luis Gutierrez, D-Ill., co-sponsor of the Democrats' immigration bill. "Our bill is about specifics, and voters can judge for themselves which proposal would truly reform our nation's immigration laws."

The Democrats' bill, dubbed the Safe, Orderly, Legal Visas and Enforcement Act, would allow illegal immigrants to qualify for a green card or permanent legal residence if they proved they had lived in the United States for five consecutive years and had worked here at least two years.

Earlier this year, Bush proposed a guest-worker program that would give millions of undocumented immigrants temporary legal status for six years or longer. But they would not be eligible for permanent residency.

The plan hasn't been drafted into legislation, but officials say it represents a reasonable compromise between those who want to shut the country's doors to immigrants and those who want to swing the doors open.

The Democrats are pushing the administration, banking that millions of Hispanic voters will view immigration as a make-or-break issue in this year's presidential election.

"Our bill makes the debate over immigration very clear to voters in November," said Rep. Bob Menendez, D-N.J., another co-sponsor of the bill. "It's about choosing to support a proposal that would legalize undocumented immigrants or one that seeks to deport them."......azcentral.com

[Hammer67]

Originally Posted by tony hipchest

so out of approx 300,000,000 people living in the states, approx 20,000,000 are illegal. are you saying that more than 1 out of every 15 crimes is commited by an illegal alien?

of course all are commiting crime by just being here, but for the sake of debate, i am suggesting that i am just as fearful of an american criminal as i am of an illegal alien criminal.

True, but the underlying theme here is our tax dollars have to pay to incarcerate them, our health care costs rise when they go to an emergency room or get government benefits. THey are not directly paying into the tax pool, yet can benefit from it or are supported by it.