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Old 05-26-2007, 09:47 AM   #61
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Default Re: The Republicans have sold out America.

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My point wa that it is wrong to "label" the Republicans as seeling this country out when the Dems are far softer on this issue....You seemed to have missed the post that explained what I was saying...let me try again....and then YOU can decide who is softer on Illegal immigrants....Please read the following stories from online news sources.
So because the Bleeding Heart Democrats are softer means we should give BushCo a free pass on pushing this crappy legislation?

Sounds like a really sorry set of choices.
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Old 05-26-2007, 10:05 AM   #62
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Default Re: The Republicans have sold out America.

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Originally Posted by lamberts-lost-tooth View Post
My point wa that it is wrong to "label" the Republicans as seeling this country out when the Dems are far softer on this issue....You seemed to have missed the post that explained what I was saying...let me try again....and then YOU can decide who is softer on Illegal immigrants....Please read the following stories from online news sources.
I could give you a laundry list of quotes from GOP officials that are just as "soft" as the Dems on immigration, as well as referring you to the litany of editorials in the Wall Street Journal (no friend of the Democrats) that tout the benefits of immigration.

Immigration is one of those issues that cuts across party lines - it most directly has an adverse impact on less economically advantaged individuals who compete with immigrants for less desirable jobs (a traditional Democratic constituency) and most directly benefits employers who can keep wages down by hiring immigrants (a traditional GOP constituency).

Balanced against that are the concerns of "social" conservatives (whom the GOP has been promising the moon and the stars for 25 years while delivering little in return for their votes) regarding the impact of immigrants upon the social fabric as opposed to liberals who instinctively feel a need to reach out to immigrants as another "disadvantaged" group.

Add to that both parties lusting after the growing Hispanic vote and it is hard to cast one party as the "pro-immigrant" party and the other party as the "anti-immigrant" party.

Realistically, deporting the illegals is not going to happen - the consensus in opposition to the current bill appears to be growing around really securing the borders and only then working on assimilating the illegals who are here.

Peggy Noonan has a well written articulation of this position in the linked article in the Wall Street Journal.

We should stop, slow down and absorb. We should sit and settle. We should do what you do after eating an eight-course meal. We should digest what we've eaten.

We should close our borders. We should do whatever it takes to close them tight and solid. Will that take the Army? Then send the Army. Does it mean building a wall? Then build a wall, but the wall must have doors, which can be opened a little or a lot down the road once we know where we are. Should all legal immigration stop? No. We should make a list of what our nation needs, such as engineers and nurses, and then admit a lot of engineers and nurses. We should take in what we need to survive and flourish.

As we end illegal immigration, we should set ourselves to the Americanization of the immigrants we have. They haven't only joined a place of riches, it's a place of meaning. We must teach them what it is they've joined and why it is good and what is expected of them and what is owed. We stopped Americanizing ourselves 40 years ago. We've got to start telling the story of our country again.
...

Here is the truth: America has never deported millions of people, and America will never deport millions of people. It's not what we do. It's not who we are. It's not who we want to be. The American people would never accept evening news pictures of sobbing immigrants being torn from their homes and put on a bus. We wouldn't accept it because we have hearts, and as much as we try to see history in the abstract, we know history comes down to the particular, to the sobbing child in the bus. We don't round up and remove. Nor should we, tomorrow, on one of our whims, grant full legal status and a Cadillac car. We take it a day at a time. We wait and see what's happening. We do the small discrete things a nation can do to make the overall situation better. For instance: "You commit a violent crime? You are so out of here." And, "Here, let me help you learn English."

http://www.opinionjournal.com/columnists/pnoonan/
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Old 05-26-2007, 10:27 AM   #63
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Default Re: The Republicans have sold out America.

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.

...Add to that both parties lusting after the growing Hispanic vote and it is hard to cast one party as the "pro-immigrant" party and the other party as the "anti-immigrant" party.
AWWWWW! (big sigh of relief)...thank you Dan for a fair, fact based rebuttal...I may not agree with everything you said, but it is refreshing to have a well thought out response without the words "Suck" or "Drink the Kool-aid" ....for the record, I HAVE an immigration plan...as I have stated in another thread....I know we cant afford to build a wall between us and Mexico...so....I have proposed that we just keep track of every hard-working Hispanic that comes into our country.... and send an equal amount of lazy, working age Welfare recipients back their way.....THEY will build the wall!!!!
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Old 05-26-2007, 11:09 AM   #64
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Default Re: The Republicans have sold out America.

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Originally Posted by lamberts-lost-tooth View Post
AWWWWW! (big sigh of relief)...thank you Dan for a fair, fact based rebuttal...I may not agree with everything you said, but it is refreshing to have a well thought out response without the words "Suck" or "Drink the Kool-aid" ....for the record, I HAVE an immigration plan...as I have stated in another thread....I know we cant afford to build a wall between us and Mexico...so....I have proposed that we just keep track of every hard-working Hispanic that comes into our country.... and send an equal amount of lazy, working age Welfare recipients back their way.....THEY will build the wall!!!!
I didn't use suck or kool ade in my posts? I must be slipping.
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Old 05-26-2007, 11:15 AM   #65
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Default Re: The Republicans have sold out America.

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I didn't use suck or kool ade in my posts? I must be slipping.
LOL...wasnt talking about you Jeremy.
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Old 05-26-2007, 11:40 AM   #66
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Default Re: The Republicans have sold out America.

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LOL...wasnt talking about you Jeremy.
Sorry. I'm a pretty popular target around here the last few days. It might be time to take a break from posting.
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Old 05-26-2007, 09:47 PM   #67
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Default Re: The Republicans have sold out America.

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Sorry. I'm a pretty popular target around here the last few days. It might be time to take a break from posting.
Jeremy, don't stop posting. Your posts are relevant. I am a LLT fan and agree with most everything he says.....but it doesn't mean you don't have a right to voice your opinion & that your opinion might not be right! I have learned alot from locker room & blast furnace. The main thing is that there are many people who i disagee with that have very valid points I've never considered. Glad your a SF member!
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Old 05-26-2007, 10:32 PM   #68
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Default Re: The Republicans have sold out America.

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Sorry. I'm a pretty popular target around here the last few days. It might be time to take a break from posting.
Jeremy, no need to take a break, your views are just as important as everyone else. Do what suits you though.
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Old 06-01-2007, 12:41 PM   #69
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Default Re: The Republicans have sold out America.

Nobody has more solid credentials as a Reagan Republican than the Gipper's speeechwriter Peggy Noonan. For this reason, this complete smackdown of W (with a sideswipe ar Bush I while she is at it) indicates W may be well on the way to alienating the entire spectrum of political opinion in the U.S. (he took care of the rest of the world some time ago).

President Bush has torn the conservative coalition asunder.

The White House doesn't need its traditional supporters anymore, because its problems are way beyond being solved by the base. And the people in the administration don't even much like the base. Desperate straits have left them liberated, and they are acting out their disdain. Leading Democrats often think their base is slightly mad but at least their heart is in the right place. This White House thinks its base is stupid and that its heart is in the wrong place.

For almost three years, arguably longer, conservative Bush supporters have felt like sufferers of battered wife syndrome. You don't like endless gushing spending, the kind that assumes a high and unstoppable affluence will always exist, and the tax receipts will always flow in? Too bad! You don't like expanding governmental authority and power? Too bad. You think the war was wrong or is wrong? Too bad.

But on immigration it has changed from "Too bad" to "You're bad."
...

The beginning of my own sense of separation from the Bush administration came in January 2005, when the president declared that it is now the policy of the United States to eradicate tyranny in the world, and that the survival of American liberty is dependent on the liberty of every other nation. This was at once so utopian and so aggressive that it shocked me. For others the beginning of distance might have been Katrina and the incompetence it revealed, or the depth of the mishandling and misjudgments of Iraq.

What I came in time to believe is that the great shortcoming of this White House, the great thing it is missing, is simple wisdom. Just wisdom--a sense that they did not invent history, that this moment is not all there is, that man has lived a long time and there are things that are true of him, that maturity is not the same thing as cowardice, that personal loyalty is not a good enough reason to put anyone in charge of anything, that the way it works in politics is a friend becomes a loyalist becomes a hack, and actually at this point in history we don't need hacks.


http://www.opinionjournal.com/columnists/pnoonan/
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Old 06-01-2007, 12:55 PM   #70
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Default Re: The Republicans have sold out America.

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Originally Posted by lamberts-lost-tooth View Post
AWWWWW! (big sigh of relief)...thank you Dan for a fair, fact based rebuttal...I may not agree with everything you said, but it is refreshing to have a well thought out response without the words "Suck" or "Drink the Kool-aid" ....for the record, I HAVE an immigration plan...as I have stated in another thread....I know we cant afford to build a wall between us and Mexico...so....I have proposed that we just keep track of every hard-working Hispanic that comes into our country.... and send an equal amount of lazy, working age Welfare recipients back their way.....THEY will build the wall!!!!
If we took everyone on welfare in the state of Texas,Arizona,New Mexico, and Calif they could build the wall over a long weekend. I'll bring the beer.
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