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Old 05-25-2007, 10:44 AM   #31
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Default Re: One of the Scariest Things You'll Ever Read

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Originally Posted by Blitzburgh View Post
Mods ... take some of your own advice and attack the post and not the poster. I like the convienent way some of you immediately talk around the seriousness of the issue as if it never really happened or that it's really no big deal that we have a self-serving fascist dictator on our hands here.

When you have some time, check this out if you really want to understand the big picture.

WARNING: The information shared in this video will challenge your very system of beliefs. The system you have been taught and groomed to support since your early childhood. You will learn about the complexity of the matrix we live in. Only watch this if you are open to seeing the truth ...


TERROR STORM

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...48453686176230
He may be banned..but you have to give him his due....His passion sometimes overwhelmed his insanity...

....seriously mods....thanks for seeing the difference between someone willing to debate and one who is purposefully flaming posts ...and in the process cause division among people who would otherwise be able to have an intellectual discussion.
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Old 05-25-2007, 10:47 AM   #32
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Default Re: One of the Scariest Things You'll Ever Read

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Originally Posted by Mosca View Post
AD, I abide by the moderators decision to ban him. They don't need to justify it. I took on Bburgh in a different thread, pointing out to him that his attacks on Bush were not in any way helpful or on-topic; he's a hardhead in that way, I guess.

HOWEVER. The knife should cut both ways. Similar punishment should be meted out if the subject of attacks were to be the duly elected Senator from New York, Hillary Clinton, or the esteemed Speaker of the House of Representatives, Nancy Pelosi. They, too, represent their peoples' choice. And were Hillary to be elected president I would expect her to get the same respect that is being requested for President Bush. Since the office should be respected, after all; she WOULD be our leader, and we should all stand behind her.


Tom
Tom...I dont think it was the topic ..but the nastiness of the poster towards not only the topic..but towards those that dared to disagree with him....I would debate against him all day if necessary..except for the fact that he ALWAYS resorted to name calling and rarely used facts to back up staement...making for a flame-fest.
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Old 05-25-2007, 10:53 AM   #33
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Default Re: One of the Scariest Things You'll Ever Read

I am not challenging the mods decision and appreciate their efforts & ability to keep this board from devolving to where other boards on which I used to post have plummeted.

It just is helpful to see where the line is drawn, especially when references are made to "behind the scenes" action.

Since this post I have been advised of some background
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Old 05-25-2007, 11:00 AM   #34
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Default Re: One of the Scariest Things You'll Ever Read

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Originally Posted by Mosca View Post
With all due respect, and you folks know I'm not a troublemaker; if there are things going on behind the scenes that should stay there, then leave them there. To make comments based on that knowledge, and to then bring it out here, and then tell us that we can't comment because we don't know the whole story.... well, then you're talking about stuff out front that should be left in the back.

And of course you are allowed an opinion, fan76. But the opinion you are voicing in this thread isn't directed toward the subject, toward the issue raised in the post; it is an opinion about whether or not the post is proper, or on topic. If this is an administrative issue, then dropping it on the membership in this way is a bit high-handed, don't you think? And the first amendment is not at all relevant to this message board, as you well know.

And HTG, yes you did ask for a credible source; but you also wrote, in response to fan76's aside about the propriety of the post, "I totally agree Gary. It's getting beyond ridiculous." And then you and fan76 continue constructing straw men to knock down in mocking response; the only times "Buck Fush" and "Bush is a murderer" are mentioned in this thread is by both of you.

I take a lot of pride in telling people that this is one board where a person can find good solid discourse on both sides of an issue. Yes, it's the internet, and anyone can step in with inflammatory rhetoric, but by and large this is a good place where people on both sides can share well thought out opinions.

It would be unrealistic to expect a moderator to not have an opinion, and to refrain for voicing it; I enjoy reading opposing viewpoints, and our moderators have some of the best. But it is not unrealistic to expect moderators to refrain from attempting to influence people from posting based on whether or not they agree with the content off the post. And it is not unrealistic to expect them to give a post they disagree with the same impartiality for its validity that they would extend to one they agree with.

I've always felt that the staff here has done a great job in that manner, which is why this particular incident is so jarringly obvious. I hope it is a minor aberration borne from some behind the scenes frustration and everyone can work it out and get on with business as usual, which includes the great discussion of heavy issues that many of us have come to enjoy.


Tom
One last post on this, and then we can get back on topic...

I understand and respect your opinion here, Mosca. But a lot of what I'm seeing here in some of the responses is a little bit of the "damned if you do, damned if you don't" aspect of being a moderator. If we bring things out in the open, that's seen as "unprofessional" or borne of frustration, and people question it. If we handle everything behind the scenes, which is what we always attempt to do...then there's always someone who will question it because it's NOT out in the open for all to see. I understand that it comes with the territory - I've been a mod/admin for 5 years now. But it doesn't make it any less frustrating.

As for this particular incident, I'm not going to discuss everything that went on behind the scenes. The only thing I will say is that we do not take any action or make any comments WRT member conduct or potential problems (the latter being the case with this thread, IMHO) unless we have good reason to. We try to be preemptive and proactive in recognizing a situation that may get out of hand, and try to nip it in the bud before it becomes a problem. It's our way of keeping the board running as smoothly as possible, while making everyone feel comfortable and giving them the freedom to express themselves within the boundary of the rules. If anyone has bothered to read some of my posts, you know I have no problem at all expressing my opinions - LOL!

No one here, least of all any moderator, is trying to suppress anyone's right to free speech or their opinions. And there certainly is no move to restrict anyone's political views, whether they be right, left, center...whatever. It's just that oftentimes these threads degenerate into name-calling and flame-baiting, and any good conversation and debate gets completely lost, because some people are unable to carry on a debate without resorting to such conduct. So long as everyone involved in the political discussions - or any other discussion - debate respectfully, there shouldn't be any issues, and us moderators can stay quietly on the sidelines, so to speak.

I hope this clears things up.
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Old 05-25-2007, 11:20 AM   #35
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Default Re: One of the Scariest Things You'll Ever Read

I agree with everything except the challenge to the validity of the initial post; it is a legitimate topic for discussion.

The guy got banned for acting like a jerk and going off when challenged. That is an accepted fact. Like I wrote, too bad for him, for being such a hardhead.

I trust that things behind the scenes are being handled on the up and up; it's an internet forum, fergoodness' sake. there's no power to be gained from gaming things. There's nothing to game! Again, the jarring aspect was the way it did boil out into the open. I would have expected a warning against the topic devolving, rather than what happened.

Thanks for the explanation, and I accept what happened. Thanks for letting me say my piece. Whether I agree or disagree, it makes no difference in what I think of folks here; often there is no right or wrong, just differences that need to be accepted. I accept. If I offended anyone, I apologize; but I did try to stay on explaining my position on the issue I was addressing, not on attacking anyone. I did stand back and reread the entire thread, and I can see some of where everyone was coming from; Bburgh often posted to incite, and this comes as another fire to be put out. I'd only ask that you do the same and see where I was coming from. Take out the fact that Bburgh often acted as a provocateur and simply read the thread, and you'll see what I mean.


Tom
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Old 05-25-2007, 02:36 PM   #36
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Default Re: One of the Scariest Things You'll Ever Read

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Originally Posted by Atlanta Dan View Post
I am not challenging the mods decision and appreciate their efforts & ability to keep this board from devolving to where other boards on which I used to post have plummeted.

It just is helpful to see where the line is drawn, especially when references are made to "behind the scenes" action.

Since this post I have been advised of some background
All members need to do when questioning our actions around here is to refer to the board COC which stares you in the face at the top of every forum. That is what we base our decisions on.

My ONLY purpose for mentioning on the open board that there was some behind the scenes "action" in this case was because a member didn't understand (and had no way of understanding as he is not a Mod) why we came down so hard on the member in question. Please go back and read my post - I did not reveal in detail what the issues were nor did I break a confidence, something I would never do. I posted what I did to alert Tom (and others who may have been left with a question mark) to the fact that he didn't have all of the facts - nothing more, nothing less. If put in the same situation again, I would do exactly what I did.
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Old 05-25-2007, 03:23 PM   #37
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Default Re: One of the Scariest Things You'll Ever Read

It's OK, HTG. You NEVER need to explain a ban to me. I would always trust it to be deserved. At the time you wrote that, I didn't even know he'd been banned, btw. I only saw it when LITP posted it.

I accept the explanations, I got to say what I wanted to, and I'm content with the outcome.

Thanks,

Tom
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Old 05-25-2007, 09:57 PM   #38
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Default Re: One of the Scariest Things You'll Ever Read

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Originally Posted by Mosca View Post
punishment should be meted out IF the subject of attacks were to be the duly elected Senator from New York, Hillary Clinton, or the esteemed Speaker of the House of Representatives, Nancy Pelosi. And WERE Hillary to be elected president I would expect her to get the same respect that is being requested for President Bush. Since the office should be respected, after all; she WOULD be our leader, and we should all stand behind her.


Tom


But Tom,.... this not the case. George Bush is our President. Henceforth the prospective 'Job' that any other would do in such said position is but mere speculation.

Meaning,....it's easy to point out the shortcomings of one in such a position of power. As he is looked at to have 'all of the answers' to everyones problems. But the reality is,...ANYONE whom has or will ever hold office is far from having the 'last word' so to speak in regards to how things 'actually' play out.

Simply put, George Bush is no more a "moron" given free reign to 'make our lives difficult' than Hillary or any other prospective candidate of either "Party" is a savior. It's simply not solely up to them to be so.

Bottom line,.......no matter who's in office,...it's simply not possible to please everyone. And there will always be 'debates' between those whom support the said leadership of that time,...and those whom feel they are 'on the outside looking in ' because the said 'Leader' is not of their particular "Party".

But with that said,......it's far more effective if you will to conduct yourself with tact and or class regarding 'politics' in a public forum. Humor is one thing, but to resort to childishness when faced with having to support a stance that you feel so passionately about,....essentially renders you impotent.

Which after viewing this thread,...among others,... is exactly what IMO Blitz did to himself. Regardless as to whether or not there was validity to his 'arguments'.

As it's my belief that order should be respected whether you 'like it or not " and should never be called into question 'publicly'. As though you may feel as though you are having the effect of calling into question the merit of such structure,.... you are actually doing yourself even more of a disservice as,.......are you not part of it as well ?
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Old 05-26-2007, 10:25 AM   #39
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Default Re: One of the Scariest Things You'll Ever Read

SteelCzar76,

I believe that there is merit in "Question Authority". And I believe to some degree it should be questioned publicly. In this instance I believe I had a good point, and I can also see where the mods had a point as well. As far as I'm concerned, I got to say my piece and they said theirs, and it's over. There were no confidences violated. And I wasn't questioning any moderators' use of their authority (I didn't even know Bburgh'd been banned when I posted), I was questioning the way they were reacting publicly, as members who were also moderators, to the subject posted. The explanation I was given (that Bburgh has a history of posting for the sole purpose of rabble rousing) satisfied me. Whether or not I agree with it is not important; I see where they were coming from. Done.

Much of what you quoted from me was meant to point out any pending future hypocrisy that might arise if the candidate of the left gets elected; she won't get the same respect that is being requested for Bush. There was some gentle sarcasm there, nothing to be taken seriously but only to point out indirectly that if you want to dish it out, in the past (Clinton) and in the future (Clinton), be prepared to take it now (Bush). And you and I both know, there is going to be some strong hate. Hillary is nothing if not polarizing.

I've never been much personally for tossing strong invective; like others have pointed out, no one takes that seriously and it only serves to harden opinions, not bring them together. But there are plenty of people in this world who enjoy that stuff, and if they want to go at it, great; but don't say, "It's ok for me but not you."





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Old 05-28-2007, 09:07 PM   #40
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Default Re: One of the Scariest Things You'll Ever Read

Dang people....

We have a debate about the MODS... In a political thread...

AND IT DOESN'T GET UGLY??


Wow... Great Job EVERYONE!
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