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Old 07-08-2007, 01:29 PM   #41
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Default Re: SN- Ranking the Tight Ends

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Originally Posted by MasterOfPuppets View Post
as long as grossman is the qb, nobody in chicago's passing game will be a threat....
I hate Chicago with a passion...but I am going out on a limb and will predict Grossman to have a better year (If he stays healthy)....although better is an arbitrary word with Grossman.
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Old 07-08-2007, 01:42 PM   #42
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Default Re: SN- Ranking the Tight Ends

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Originally Posted by lamberts-lost-tooth View Post
I hate Chicago with a passion...but I am going out on a limb and will predict Grossman to have a better year (If he stays healthy)....although better is an arbitrary word with Grossman.
I actually agree with you LLT. I think that he is going to look a lot more like he did toward the beginning of the season then he did in the Super Bowl.

Considering last year was his first real year as the "man," he faired pretty well at first. He has the potential and claims that he has located a "major flaw" in his delivery. Apparently he has throwing off his back foot a lot and forgetting to step into the pass...

I always thought that was pretty fundamental... but what do I know other than I'd be be checking my blood pressure a lot if I lived in the Windy City...
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Old 07-08-2007, 02:12 PM   #43
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Default Re: SN- Ranking the Tight Ends

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Originally Posted by Crushzilla View Post
I actually agree with you LLT. I think that he is going to look a lot more like he did toward the beginning of the season then he did in the Super Bowl.

Considering last year was his first real year as the "man," he faired pretty well at first. He has the potential and claims that he has located a "major flaw" in his delivery. Apparently he has throwing off his back foot a lot and forgetting to step into the pass...
I always thought that was pretty fundamental... but what do I know other than I'd be be checking my blood pressure a lot if I lived in the Windy City...
Great call!!!...he seems to make his reads...but fails in the delivery.
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Old 07-08-2007, 04:35 PM   #44
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Default Re: SN- Ranking the AFC Tight Ends

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Originally Posted by Livinginthe past View Post
So, in terms of the TE's drafted this year, how exactly would you rank them? 1)spaeth 2) olsen 3) z. miller(?) of the raiders 4) arizonas pick out of maryland

When none of the top 3 TE's chosen have actually played a down in the NFL why should the No.3 guy be 'arguably the best'.

They are all 'arguably the best' at this point - depending on your viewpoint. "Spaeth's credentials include winning the Mackey Award as the college football's best tight end, an honor that also went to Heath Miller, drafted by the Steelers in 2005.


The exceptions don't prove the rule. A weak looking class remains just that ,and isn't affected by players drafted for another position the year before. semantics here. if calvin johnson were a wr in last years draft the class as a whole woulda still been "weak" but that would not made him any less of a player individually.


Im not saying that they wont turn out to be a factor but there is no way to actually predict how these guys are going to play in the NFL - its where the term 'bust' derives from - players that 'should have made it but didn't'. hundereds of scouts make a living predicting how players are gonna play in the nfl. pittsburgh has got some great ones. sure their are occasional busts, but with great scouting, like you say, "the exception doesnt make the rule".

Both guys you noted were high 1st round impact players - not exactly the same thing as a 3rd round TE. tight ends typically arent top 5 picks

For every Reggie Bush there is a bunch of Akili Smith's and Ryan Leaf's.ryan leaf is more the exception than the rule. theres a reason r. bush was the consensus #1 player on every teams board (even the texans)



Intangible just means its not typically measured for ease of comparison - unless you are some type of football obsesssive then I don't see how you can be aware of how the TE's for each of the 32 teams block on a regular basis (or even how much they are expected to block) i am a "football obsessive". im trying to train my eye to pay more attention to just the position players

Sure, the Steelers coaches have a good succes rate, no argument there but what is Pittsburghs success rate at drafting and utilising TE's recently?

Not good, I would suggest. lets just go off the cowher era, shall we? the main ones were eric green, mark breuner, jerame stevens, jay reimersma, heath miller, and now we have spaeth. all of those but jay were homegrown talent who had long and productive careers in the nfl. the steelers have consistantly been one of (if not the best) consitant rushing teams in the nfl with these guys helping with our power run game offense. they have also been the winningest team in the league over the same timespan. history shows steelers definitely know how to draft and utilize TE's. "not good???" LMAO!

Its a little like trying to convince people that the Patriots have had some great FB's the last 5/6 years - its just that we run out of a spread formation alot of the time so you don't get to see how great they really are. bad comparison. steelers run out of the 2 te set quite frequently.



Brady would be the 'Tuman' in the Steelers line-up. We 'went out and got Brady' because we lost a great blocking TE to Denver.that must suck. i guess theyre not to high on vince youngs pet they reached for the previous year huh?

I'll put my hands up and say I haven't seen enough of Brady or Tuman to say 'who is the best'.

ive watched both for quite a few years, in his heyday brady was the better TE. (i had him a looong time ago as my FFstarter where he earned the nickname "pyle brady" cause in fantasy terms he was a pile of shit.)

Well then. Why don't you share with us this 'insider knowledge' of the new coach and how he plans to utilise the TE's? i thought i already did?

Are we going to see more spread formations or more 2 TE sets? How many catches do they envisage for Spaeth this year? see below:

Well this remains to be seen. In a FF thread I remarked that Watsons value could go either way this year with all the arrivals at WR - it could open up more space and make him the 'open guy' alot more. well youre stepping out on a limb saying it could go either way. the patriots way says his numbers will be relatively low like that of d. branch in hopes of resigning him once his rookie deal draws near.

Or he could spend alot of time watching the ball winging its way to Stalllworth, Moss and Welker.

watching sounds about right. he definitely is more of a receiver than a blocker.

What I would suggest is that he won't be double teamed all year, like he was last year.

thats a lousy excuse. it certainly doesnt hurt crumpler, gates, or gonzalez.

With Hines Ward and Santonio Holmes on the team - I very much doubt if Miller was double teamed on a regular basis last year?

Was he?after he caught 6 td's in the 1st half of his rookie season he was doubled a ton. if you watch the steelers 4 game run (on the road) on route to their 5th sb victory you can see what a huge impact him getting double teamed had on the rest of the offense (especially the passing game)

Again, college production is only an indicator of what to expect anf NFL level - no guarantees.this article is titled TE rankings, not TE's guranteed production.

Ok its a bet. Now are you going to phone the Colts F.O. or am I?i already know the answer so i'll leave that up to you.

Adalius Thomas was a 6th round draft pick - you saying that the Patriots would swap him for a LBer taken in the 2nd or 3rd round of this years draft?lol. now youre comparing a. thomas (a pro bowler to ben utecht??? completely laughable. atleast i was comparing a te from minnesota to the te who replaced him.

Pro production > rookie draft position - everytime average or sub par pro production has teams drafting replacements. are you really this high on ben utecht? thats funny.

Personally, I think Watson and Miller are very closely matched - Miller has more TD's as pointed out earlier in the thread by Fansince'76. well thats quite a 180 after saying watson was way better than anyone the steelers had on their roster

But Watson, over the last 2 years that Miller has also been on the league,. has caught for 250 extra yards and been double teamed on a regular basis. thats not saying much considering he was the best receiving threat on the patriots offense (as said above great receiving TE's easilly trump being double teamed)

The reason I think the Steelers are too high at 3 is that they have 1 good TE, a rookie and a guy who has caught an average of 5 passes a year since he joined the NFL. and what do all the other teams you mentionned have?

Maybe Tuman is one of those great blocking TE's we just haven't heard about outside of Pittsburgh - but then most teams have an anonymous blocking TE who you 'haven't heard about'. most teams arent consistant leaders in rushing.

Which is exactly why I don't have to know a great deal about who is the 3rd TE on those teams I ranked above the Steelers. well if you dont even know who teams 3rd guys are, you really cant offer much of an educated opinion on who should be ranked the best TE UNITS now can you? heres some facts: i do know that the steelers 3rd TE on the depth chart (currently) won the award for best TE in college last year, has excellent character and tons of accolades and "all collegiate team" nominations throughout his college career. i know his team led their conference in rushing for 2 years, as the relative unknown gophers produced stand outs such as m. barber and l. maroney.
you keep asking for "insider knowledge" that i have already directed you to. theres a long thread on it already and i personally recommend the kirwan articles, the article by ed bouschette, the steelers coaches interviews on spaeth, and his bio. i think you will find all the insight you need to see why a rag such as SportingNews would have the gall and audacity to rank the steelers TE UNIT #3.

http://forums.steelersfever.com/showthread.php?t=16581

you will also find nuggets such as this in his bio:

Quote:
-2006 Was not called for a penalty in any game?Produced 22 first downs among his 47 grabs, converting 3-of-10 third-down plays and three more on fourth-down action?Eight of his receptions were for 20 yards or longer?Had big plays that set up 11 touchdown drives and one more that resulted in a field goal?Caught 3-of-7 passes thrown to him inside the red zone.

-2005 SEASON All-Big Ten Conference first-team and Academic All-Big Ten choice?Winner of the school's Scholar-Athlete Award?

-2004 SEASON Academic All-Big Ten Conference, adding honorable mention All-Big Ten accolades?Named Minnesota's Scholar-Athlete?Started every game

-2003 SEASON Academic All-Big Ten Conference selection and Minnesota Scholar-Athlete?Earned All-Big Ten Conference Freshman Team honors from The Sporting News?
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Old 07-08-2007, 06:11 PM   #45
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Default Re: SN- Ranking the AFC Tight Ends

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"Spaeth's credentials include winning the Mackey Award as the college football's best tight end, an honor that also went to Heath Miller, drafted by the Steelers in 2005.
Thats fine - he won a college award but its fair to say that certain college programs favor the use of TE's - the way some programs put up big numbers for QB's or RB's.

Last year there were 6 TE's chosen ahead of the position Spaeth was drafted at - that makes me think that its a weak year for TE's - and Spaeth wasn't even the 1st guy picked out of a weak class.

Despite being the 'best TE in football'.

Quote:
semantics here. if calvin johnson were a wr in last years draft the class as a whole woulda still been "weak" but that would not made him any less of a player individually.
True.

But Calvin Johnson would still have been the 1st WR picked - Spaeth was the 3rd.

Quote:
hundereds of scouts make a living predicting how players are gonna play in the nfl. pittsburgh has got some great ones. sure their are occasional busts, but with great scouting, like you say, "the exception doesnt make the rule".
Yep and alot of those scouts didn't think he was worthy of either of their 1st two picks - despite the TE being a more and more fundamental part of NFL offenses.

Quote:
tight ends typically arent top 5 picks
No they aren't, but plenty get picked in the 1st round.

Quote:
ryan leaf is more the exception than the rule. theres a reason r. bush was the consensus #1 player on every teams board (even the texans)
Reggie Bush has had a nice start as a pro, but i'll be keeping an eye on his sophomore performance before making him the best pick of last years draft.

Quote:
i am a "football obsessive". im trying to train my eye to pay more attention to just the position players
I guess I asked for that one.

Quote:
lets just go off the cowher era, shall we? the main ones were eric green, mark breuner, jerame stevens, jay reimersma, heath miller, and now we have spaeth. all of those but jay were homegrown talent who had long and productive careers in the nfl. the steelers have consistantly been one of (if not the best) consitant rushing teams in the nfl with these guys helping with our power run game offense. they have also been the winningest team in the league over the same timespan. history shows steelers definitely know how to draft and utilize TE's. "not good???" LMAO!
Let go of the Cowher era? The Tomlin era has barely begun!

Some of those guys sound like fantastic third tackles.

Riemersma - 8.5 catches a year.
Green - 40 catches a year (i'll give you that one)
Mark Breuner - 15 catches a year.

Out of the list of 3 above ( I don't know who Jerame Stevens is) two were first round picks and the other one wasn't drafted by the Steelers.

Not much in the way of comparison to a 3rd round pick.

Even if he is 'the best TE ion the draft'.

Quote:
well youre stepping out on a limb saying it could go either way. the patriots way says his numbers will be relatively low like that of d. branch in hopes of resigning him once his rookie deal draws near.
There are alot of new factors this year on the offense - I honestly have no idea which way that will affect Watsons stats.

I have a new found respect for the Patriots achievements, not only have they won 3 SB's, but they've done it while deliberately keeping a lid on individual players stats to make them easier to resign.

Worked with Branch and Vinatieri just fine, didn't it?

Maybe the next step is to stop making the postseason so consistently, that tends to add unneeded extra value to players worth.

Quote:
thats a lousy excuse. it certainly doesnt hurt crumpler, gates, or gonzalez.
Not really. Watson simply isn't in that league of TE, just yet.

Lets compare the first two years as a starter (Watson was injured nearly all of his 1st year) of each career, as players often break out in their 3rd year and should certainly be improving.

Watson - 78 catches 1084 yards
Crumpler - 61 catches 785 yards
Gates - 105 catches 1353 yards
Gonzalez - 92 catches 989 yards

Out of the group of 4 TE's (two of which are probably HOF) Watson has the 3rd most catches and 2nd most yardage.

Thats some pretty decent company, to say the least, and Watson compares well.

Quote:
after he caught 6 td's in the 1st half of his rookie season he was doubled a ton. if you watch the steelers 4 game run (on the road) on route to their 5th sb victory you can see what a huge impact him getting double teamed had on the rest of the offense (especially the passing game)
That was a genuine enquiry - appreciate the info.

I do like Miller as a TE.

Quote:
this article is titled TE rankings, not TE's guranteed production.
Rankings should be based upon more than hot air. Giving a guy a pro- ranking based upon college production is bad practice.

Quote:
average or sub par pro production has teams drafting replacements. are you really this high on ben utecht? thats funny.
I'd take Utecht over Spaeth, for sure. Utecht plays behind one of the best pass catching TE's in the NFL.

Quote:
well thats quite a 180 after saying watson was way better than anyone the steelers had on their roster
Im always open to constructive counter points. Fansince'76 made a very good one - I can't ignore the fact that Miller has outscored Watson in TD's.

A '180' would be saying that Watson is now worse than anyone on Pittsburghs roster - a little different to giving Miller some deserved props.

Quote:
thats not saying much considering he was the best receiving threat on the patriots offense (as said above great receiving TE's easilly trump being double teamed
No they don't. Not at such an early stage of their career (as demonstrated earlier) - this is a case of that upside thing you were so hot on a few posts back.

Watson has plenty when you consider the leap in production in 2006 compared to 2005.

Quote:
and what do all the other teams you mentionned have?
A better 1st TE and comparable, if not better, blocking TE's.

Quote:
most teams arent consistant leaders in rushing.
3 yards and a cloud of dust works well in the regular season, I hear. (are we getting back to the Cowher era again?)

Quote:
well if you dont even know who teams 3rd guys are, you really cant offer much of an educated opinion on who should be ranked the best TE UNITS now can you? heres some facts: i do know that the steelers 3rd TE on the depth chart (currently) won the award for best TE in college last year, has excellent character and tons of accolades and "all collegiate team" nominations throughout his college career. i know his team led their conference in rushing for 2 years, as the relative unknown gophers produced stand outs such as m. barber and l. maroney
My point is that, I have just as much information on the Patriots TE situation as you do on the Pittsburgh situation.

To make out that you have extensive knowledge of of every teams 3rd TE seems a stretch.

I can;t analyze the Tuman type player (3rd TE) on other teams becasue I simply dont see enough Giants, San Diego, Cowboys football to analyze how well their back-up blocking TE performs.

If I did, i'd probably want paying for it.

I won't be giving Pittsburgh much credit for non-existent production from a 3rd round TE - the same as I won't be giving the Arizona run D love for picking an ILB in the 3rd round.

The same as I don't think Minnesota's woeful pass D is improved by their selection of a 3rd round CB.

Its too early to say, and all the college awards in the world won't change that.
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Old 07-08-2007, 09:58 PM   #46
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Default Re: SN- Ranking the AFC Tight Ends

now litp, you know i like the "point/counterpoint" as much as anybody; however i would be doing myself a great disservice (and wasting plenty of keystrokes) defending my and the Sporting News writers point of view without evan accepting a viable defense on your point of view.

is your whole stance really based on this absurd comment pulled out of thin air???:

Quote:
I'd take Utecht over Spaeth, for sure. Utecht plays behind one of the best pass catching TE's in the NFL.
one of the best? if youre talking about a top 20 te based on the 80 or so on an active nfl roster i guess he is one of the "best". and that makes utecht better how?

it is probably unfair for me to ask you to provide examples or evidence of what other TE UNITS are better than the steelers top 3 when you admittedly dont even know about any 3rd TE's on any teams roster. i suppose you couldnt begin to tell us what the chargers or chiefs contingency plan would be if gates or gonzales went down to an injury but i will assume you think they wouldnt miss a beat.

i'll even simplify this for you if you have anything to offer up. take away the top TE on the 16 AFC teams and tell us whose TE UNITS would be in the best shape. the colts? the patriots?

again this article is ranking TE UNITS not individual TE's. it clearly places heath miller as #5 out of 16 TE's. essentially it is saying he is in the upper 3rd tier of TE's, hardly arguable.

i understand you refuse to step out on a limb and have an opinion on a rookie other than that they are a bust, but by your assertations can i assume you would take the bengals TE's over g. olsen and m. spaeth simlpy because of their "pro game experience"? rookies would never start in the nfl if simple "pro game experience" was the end all criteria.

the steelers have the 2 "best collegiate" TE's in the past 3 years. i dont see any other teams that can claim the same. as for the 6 TE's drafted last year at a higher spot than spaeth, all i can say is leonard pope really set the receiving world on fire and the cardinals running game was superb. he never faced any double teams and he was drafted with thoughts of having an immediate impact. then again he was a project and a combine wonder. spaeth on the other hand is considered nfl ready. like miller, he didnt even need a combine workout to "wow" scouts who didnt do their homework.

i accept your opinions and of course, always assume they will be anti-steeler. however i have brought tons of facts to this discussion. you have brought that watson is way better than anything on the steelers roster (since been blown out of the water) and that utecht is so good because he plays behind "one of the best pass catching TE's in the league".

unfortunately, neither of those "arguments" will fly? do you have anything else? besides the chargers, cheifs, and steelers there are 13 other teams in the afc. can you make a viable argument for any of their TE UNITS to be ranked ahead of pittsburghs?

again, the term "unit" implies that you must take into account the back ups. admittedly, you are not too familiar with teams back ups. i will contend that if the steelers lose their #1 TE they will be in better shape than any other team losing their #1.

for what its worth i think the bears have a really good TE situation with olsen (who many thought should be taken by carolina with the 14th pick or green bay at 16) and. d. clark. the fact that olsen slipped to #31 doesnt diminish his skills, just like being drafted mid round wouldnt increase them.

theres more to a player than simply where they are drafted. as a tom brady fan i would hope you understand this.

spaeth being drafted in the 3rd round as the #3 te, is irrelevant to this whole argument with all other things considered.
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Old 07-09-2007, 12:53 PM   #47
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Default Re: SN- Ranking the AFC Tight Ends

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Originally Posted by tony hipchest View Post
now litp, you know i like the "point/counterpoint" as much as anybody; however i would be doing myself a great disservice (and wasting plenty of keystrokes) defending my and the Sporting News writers point of view without evan accepting a viable defense on your point of view.

is your whole stance really based on this absurd comment pulled out of thin air???:
Quote:
Originally Posted by livinginthe past
I'd take Utecht over Spaeth, for sure. Utecht plays behind one of the best pass catching TE's in the NFL.
No, its obviously not solely based upon that 'absurd comment' (as you put it) - its based on all the many, many other points you decided to ignore becasue you wanted to drop the point/counter point format and indulge in a monologue.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tony hipchest View Post
one of the best? if youre talking about a top 20 te based on the 80 or so on an active nfl roster i guess he is one of the "best". and that makes utecht better how?
Put it this way, Utecht is a proven viable back-up TE at NFL level - Spaeth hasn't played a single down in pro-football.

I'll take the known quantity in competition with a 3rd rounder.. And please stop interjecting 1st round picks into the debate - they really are irrelevant.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tony hipchest View Post
it is probably unfair for me to ask you to provide examples or evidence of what other TE UNITS are better than the steelers top 3 when you admittedly dont even know about any 3rd TE's on any teams roster. i suppose you couldnt begin to tell us what the chargers or chiefs contingency plan would be if gates or gonzales went down to an injury but i will assume you think they wouldnt miss a beat.
If you read close I said I didn't have to know the 3rd TE's on other teams rosters - of course I know who they are - what I did say was that I wasn't totally aware of their performance in the blocking game.

Contigency plans? The answer really is as simple as looking to the next guy in the depth chart.

Gates goes down - Manumaleuna steps up - he hasn't caught many passes due to Gates' presense but he would be the next guy in line.

Gonzalez goes down and they probably have to make a move into FA and pick up a guy who can catch the ball otherwise they use the TE as a pure blocker.

Claiming that I said they 'wouldn't miss a beat' is just facetious and untrue. San Diego and KC have better units because their No.1 guy is better than Heath Miller and their back-ups are of comparable quality to a guy who has caught 5 passes a year and rookie mid round TE.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tony hipchest View Post
i'll even simplify this for you if you have anything to offer up. take away the top TE on the 16 AFC teams and tell us whose TE UNITS would be in the best shape. the colts? the patriots?
Thats a ridiculous offer - why should I waste my time doing that when I can ask you to take away the best RB's in the AFC and tell me who is the best?

Have fun doing it, because we wont learn anything - other than which teams have the most disposable starting RB.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tony hipchest View Post
again this article is ranking TE UNITS not individual TE's. it clearly places heath miller as #5 out of 16 TE's. essentially it is saying he is in the upper 3rd tier of TE's, hardly arguable.
Thats fine. In case you haven't realised (yet) i've given Miller his props (the 180 remember?) - its just the rest of the depth in Pittsburgh that doesn't excite me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tony hipchest View Post
i understand you refuse to step out on a limb and have an opinion on a rookie other than that they are a bust, but by your assertations can i assume you would take the bengals TE's over g. olsen and m. spaeth simlpy because of their "pro game experience"? rookies would never start in the nfl if simple "pro game experience" was the end all criteria.
There you go picking 1st rounders for comparison again.

Stick to 3rd rounders.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tony hipchest View Post
the steelers have the 2 "best collegiate" TE's in the past 3 years. i dont see any other teams that can claim the same. as for the 6 TE's drafted last year at a higher spot than spaeth, all i can say is leonard pope really set the receiving world on fire and the cardinals running game was superb. he never faced any double teams and he was drafted with thoughts of having an immediate impact. then again he was a project and a combine wonder. spaeth on the other hand is considered nfl ready. like miller, he didnt even need a combine workout to "wow" scouts who didnt do their homework.
What can I say?

Lets see how NFL ready Spaeth is at the end of the year - your consistent eulogising of an unknown college TE is tedious.

Like I mentioned before, I dont expect Minnesota to improve their DB corps because they added an NFL ready CB to the mix in the 3rd round.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tony hipchest View Post
i accept your opinions and of course, always assume they will be anti-steeler. however i have brought tons of facts to this discussion. you have brought that watson is way better than anything on the steelers roster (since been blown out of the water) and that utecht is so good because he plays behind "one of the best pass catching TE's in the league".
The problem is that you think everything I say is anti-Steeler. The fact is its only when I make a point that you jump on it. More than a few people agree with my assessment.

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Originally Posted by tony hipchest View Post
unfortunately, neither of those "arguments" will fly? do you have anything else? besides the chargers, cheifs, and steelers there are 13 other teams in the afc. can you make a viable argument for any of their TE UNITS to be ranked ahead of pittsburghs?
I'll do some for you (although you'll just disagree)

Patriots - Watson edges Miller in production. Brady is an excellent run blocker. Thomas is better than Spaeth.

Denver - Graham is of similar quality to Miller, Scheffler and Alexander are better than Tuman and Spaeth.

Baltimore- Todd Heap is better than Heath Miller - and the back-ups are of similar quality to Pittsburghs back-ups.

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Originally Posted by tony hipchest View Post
again, the term "unit" implies that you must take into account the back ups. admittedly, you are not too familiar with teams back ups. i will contend that if the steelers lose their #1 TE they will be in better shape than any other team losing their #1.
You can contend all you like. I'm presuming you are having an untested rookie stepping up into Millers position?

What utter rubbish. I wont be addressing the unproven nature of rookies again.

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Originally Posted by tony hipchest View Post
for what its worth i think the bears have a really good TE situation with olsen (who many thought should be taken by carolina with the 14th pick or green bay at 16) and. d. clark. the fact that olsen slipped to #31 doesnt diminish his skills, just like being drafted mid round wouldnt increase them.
Thats backward logic - of course his skills aren't affected by his draft position! Its the other way round.

Olsen (for the last time) went in the 1st round - you guy went in the 3rd round.

Sooner or later that fact is going to sink in.

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theres more to a player than simply where they are drafted. as a tom brady fan i would hope you understand this.

spaeth being drafted in the 3rd round as the #3 te, is irrelevant to this whole argument with all other things considered.
Oh great.

The Brady theory.

Every fanboy poster on this forum has used the '6th round Brady' theory to justify their rampant homerism while assessing their own late round draft picks.

Say hello to Omar Jacobs and the 'new Bettis' Cedric Humes when you see 'em.
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Old 07-09-2007, 01:34 PM   #48
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Default Re: SN- Ranking the AFC Tight Ends

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Last year there were 6 TE's chosen ahead of the position Spaeth was drafted at - that makes me think that its a weak year for TE's - and Spaeth wasn't even the 1st guy picked out of a weak class.
Despite being the 'best TE in football'.


To be fair...Spaeth had a shoulder injury that kept him from completing all combine tests....I had him ranked #2 behind Olson.
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Old 07-09-2007, 01:52 PM   #49
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To be fair...Spaeth had a shoulder injury that kept him from completing all combine tests....I had him ranked #2 behind Olson.
I understand your point, how combine results lead to work out warriors being drafted too high (and the reverse) - but at this point his draft position is his best indication of value (whether it be injury related or whatever).

Its difficult to guess exactly how much worth teams put on the combine workouts.

Plenty of mid round picks over achieve - Spaeth might be one of them.

Then again, he might not.
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Old 07-09-2007, 02:34 PM   #50
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I understand your point, how combine results lead to work out warriors being drafted too high (and the reverse) - but at this point his draft position is his best indication of value (whether it be injury related or whatever).

Its difficult to guess exactly how much worth teams put on the combine workouts.

Plenty of mid round picks over achieve - Spaeth might be one of them.

Then again, he might not.
He is an unkown factor..but I have more faith in the Pittsburgh's scouts ability to locate talent ...then ...say....Cincys two man scouting Corp.

To be truthful...the fact that the FO sees "something" in Spaeth gives me more reason to believe he may be special than the combine or highlight reals will ever be able to do.
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