Vick indicted

[Atlanta Dan]

Originally Posted by tony hipchest

i did notice in the poll you posted that the verdict about vick was split 45%-45% whether he should be canned amongst whites. thats not nearly as skewed on the viewpoints of oj's guilt/innocence. do you see that as a sign of progress or a bunch of die hard sportfans who know vick is there best chance of having a successful season this year?

The 50/50 split was for the entire sample. Among whites, 54.4 percent polled thought he should be released, 36.7 percent that he should stay until there was a verdict, and 8.9 percent had no opinion. Among black respondents, only 26.6 percent thought he should be released, 65.6 percent said wait until the verdict, and 7.8 percent had no opinion. That racial disparity is statistically significant.

I assume the 36% of whites who say let him play are split between those who sincerely believe nothing should be done until conviction (lots of "remember the Duke lacrosse case" comments) and those who would cheer for a serial killer at QB if it increased the chances to make the playoffs.

With regard to the 66% of black respondnets who say let him play, on Atlanta sports talk on the drive home tonight I heard one caller who said dog fighting is no different than white players hunting & fishing (although dog fighting has a bi-racial "fan base" in the South), so there is clearly a % that regards this as simply more harassment by The Man.

I look for brawls in the stands at Falcon games between those who cheer and heckle Vick if he is not suspended (with pay or otherwise). It is definitely ugly.

[ChronoCross]

Originally Posted by Atlanta Dan

The 50/50 split was for the entire sample. Among whites, 54.4 percent polled thought he should be released, 36.7 percent that he should stay until there was a verdict, and 8.9 percent had no opinion. Among black respondents, only 26.6 percent thought he should be released, 65.6 percent said wait until the verdict, and 7.8 percent had no opinion. That racial disparity is statistically significant.

I assume the 36% of whites who say let him play are split between those who sincerely believe nothing should be done until conviction (lots of "remember the Duke lacrosse case" comments) and those who would cheer for a serial killer at QB if it increased the chances to make the playoffs.

With regard to the 66% of black respondnets who say let him play, on Atlanta sports talk on the drive home tonight I heard one caller who said dog fighting is no different than white players hunting & fishing (although dog fighting has a bi-racial "fan base" in the South), so there is clearly a % that regards this as simply more harassment by The Man.

I look for brawls in the stands at Falcon games between those who cheer and heckle Vick if he is not suspended (with pay or otherwise). It is definitely ugly.

I have heard the compare to hunting and fishing deal. But if we did not hunt, states would over populate with Deers to the point in years to come were you could not drive down the road without hitting one. We have had several times in Indiana in Brown county a extra hunting weekend to take more deers out because there were so many. But deer are part of are food chain to. Now if we were in a oriental country were dog is on some of there menu's then it could be turned around. But in America dog fighting is illegal and we must a bid by the laws. Go by air ports with corn fields around them now a days, since we cannot hunt near air ports no more, they are heavy in deer. I go by hulman air port and there is dang near 50+ deer out in the fields anymore. Heck we almost hit a group that was running across the street bouncing off the fence and runing back, was funny.

[Atlanta Dan]

Originally Posted by ChronoCross

I have heard the compare to hunting and fishing deal. But if we did not hunt, states would over populate with Deers to the point in years to come were you could not drive down the road without hitting one. We have had several times in Indiana in Brown county a extra hunting weekend to take more deers out because there were so many. But deer are part of are food chain to. Now if we were in a oriental country were dog is on some of there menu's then it could be turned around. But in America dog fighting is illegal and we must a bid by the laws. Go by air ports with corn fields around them now a days, since we cannot hunt near air ports no more, they are heavy in deer. I go by hulman air port and there is dang near 50+ deer out in the fields anymore. Heck we almost hit a group that was running across the street bouncing off the fence and runing back, was funny.

I agree completely the hunting & fishing analogy is bogus (I do not hunt but several of my uncles & cousins are avid hunters and regard the start of buck season as a high holy day).

Vick's mess is already beginning to seem like a political campaign where both sides have their talk radio talking points. As a Duke alum and someone who has a pretty fair idea of how the Justice Dept. operates I am dismayed by anyone who really believes they have enough information to credibly claim what happened to Evans, Seligman and Finnerty in the lacrosse prosecution is comparable to Vick's indictment.

[tony hipchest]

oops. i misread the poll results.

today on sirius i heard a vegetarian caller actually compare dogfighting to the cruelty to the domesticated animals we eat. zzzzzzzz

new mexico just became the 49th state to outlaw ****fighting, and i can admitt that i wanted to attend one atleast once and i'd probably go twice. but i find a big difference between fighting chicken nuggets vs. fighting "mans best friend".

just like i can see the difference between hunting a deer for a set of antlers vs. an endangered african elephant for a set of tusks. sure killing any animal is all the same but when you start killin pets as opposed to food there is a huge emotional difference and heart strings are gonna be tugged.

i used to shoot lizards and birds with my BB gun as a kid. now that i own a parrot who is my bud and several exotic lizards, i could never go shoot them for "target practice".

all the dogs ive had would gladly lay down their lives to protect me. and i will admit that my childhood dog between ages 10-27 was an ass kicker (chow-husky X) and i unleashed him on several dogs. they were dogs that either tried to attack me or come into our yard. "wooley" never lost a fight. but in no way would i ever let him kill another dog or kill him for not being able to instinctively protect. that was like my furry brother.

[Atlanta Dan]

T.H. - my bet is a lot of us have treasured memories of dogs such as yours.

Vick is toast with anyone who ever has had a dog or knows someone who has - that is a lot of people.

The NY Times has a good article on this:

Mike Paul, a sports marketing executive in New York who has counseled athletes on how to handle crises, believes Vick must quickly explain his side of the story publicly if he is to salvage his reputation.

?There are few affinities that touch everybody: people who have kids and, second to that, is people who have pets,? Paul said. ?The teams are going to learn how powerful this affinity is between people and their pets.?

But Neil Schwartz, the director of business development for SportsOneSource, a company in Princeton, N.J., that studies the sporting goods industry, said it may be difficult for Vick to recover from such serious charges.

?Americans are incredibly forgiving people,? Schwartz said. ?But there are certain things people won?t overlook. This is one of them. Steroid use, I think people will overlook it. Drug use, our athletes get a lot of chances. But the P.R. from this is going to be horrible. This could be one of the all-time worst errors in judgment in the history of errors in judgment.?

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/07/19/sp...ll/19vick.html

[ChronoCross]

Originally Posted by tony hipchest

oops. i misread the poll results.

today on sirius i heard a vegetarian caller actually compare dogfighting to the cruelty to the domesticated animals we eat. zzzzzzzz

new mexico just became the 49th state to outlaw ****fighting, and i can admitt that i wanted to attend one atleast once and i'd probably go twice. but i find a big difference between fighting chicken nuggets vs. fighting "mans best friend".

just like i can see the difference between hunting a deer for a set of antlers vs. an endangered african elephant for a set of tusks. sure killing any animal is all the same but when you start killin pets as opposed to food there is a huge emotional difference and heart strings are gonna be tugged.

i used to shoot lizards and birds with my BB gun as a kid. now that i own a parrot who is my bud and several exotic lizards, i could never go shoot them for "target practice".

all the dogs ive had would gladly lay down their lives to protect me. and i will admit that my childhood dog between ages 10-27 was an ass kicker (chow-husky X) and i unleashed him on several dogs. they were dogs that either tried to attack me or come into our yard. "wooley" never lost a fight. but in no way would i ever let him kill another dog or kill him for not being able to instinctively protect. that was like my furry brother.

I have raised dobbermens to different breeds myself. My grandma spoiled BO he was a 145 pound dobby. He was so big and he did not let no one hurt anyone. Lately, well a few months ago I had to put down a black lab chow mix, 115 pounds. He would protect the kids and no coyotes got on the farm are anything. 4 months ago I had to put him down, I forget the name of illness he had but almost attack the wife and then the baby, it was so hard to put him down, we had him for 8 years. We have one of his puppies which is almost 1year 2months old and looks just like him and I have been training him on the farm and he is doing so good, he is at 98 pounds already. It has always been a sad day when a dog of ours died are like the last one I had to put to sleep. BO grandma's big baby lasted 4 years after her death, he passed away on a friend of ours Farm in 1998. He would set behind the back door were she always came out, grandpa took BO to the farm and it helped him last longer.

I hope vick goes to prison.

[tony hipchest]

This could be one of the all-time worst errors in judgment in the history of errors in judgment.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/07/19/sp...ll/19vick.html

good article and great point. of course i love my child a million times more than any of my pets ive ever had, but i think i would still react the same if i walked up and saw vick or one of his goons treating (murdering) any of them like he did his animals.

my point is to agree with the writer of the article that if you are messing with peoples pets, you might as well be messing with their children.

ive tried to remain objective on the matter and keep emotions out of it, but im really hoping to see vick go down. i know its a shame if he actually does more time than OJ, jacko, or ray-ray, but you gotta start somewhere right. (i thought scott peterson was gonna walk, so maybe there is hope)

anyways our lead story on the albuquerque nightly news is "Dog Fighting- what is being done to stop it in our state?"

vick is so screwed.

[ChronoCross]

Originally Posted by tony hipchest

good article and great point. of course i love my child a million times more than any of my pets ive ever had, but i think i would still react the same if i walked up and saw vick or one of his goons treating (murdering) any of them like he did his animals.

my point is to agree with the writer of the article that if you are messing with peoples pets, you might as well be messing with their children.

ive tried to remain objective on the matter and keep emotions out of it, but im really hoping to see vick go down. i know its a shame if he actually does more time than OJ, jacko, or ray-ray, but you gotta start somewhere right. (i thought scott peterson was gonna walk, so maybe there is hope)

anyways our lead story on the albuquerque nightly news is "Dog Fighting- what is being done to stop it in our state?"

vick is so screwed.

Well you can blame the prosecution and local police on the OJ case, making mistakes, mishandling evidence and so forth. And even in the Duke case were the prosecution played more to the media then they to the case and was not pre paired and made mistakes and then later got OJ to pay over 33 mil when another court found him responsible for the deaths. What it shows is how bad in some areas were the prosecution is not educated enough and makes dumb mistakes and allows people to walk like OJ and the Duke boys. Best thing about this case is the Federal prosecution will be pre paired and we should see the right out come because normally when the Feds come after you they are very ready and have the evidence needed and dig and dig for more to make sure that there case is secure.

We see every day sports people and celebs get off and not even go to trial because they pay the victums off. But in this case since Feds are involve there is no pay off and Vick will see the courts regardless.

[tony hipchest]

Originally Posted by ChronoCross

I have raised dobbermens to different breeds myself. My grandma spoiled BO he was a 145 pound dobby. He was so big and he did not let no one hurt anyone. Lately, well a few months ago I had to put down a black lab chow mix, 115 pounds. He would protect the kids and no coyotes got on the farm are anything. 4 months ago I had to put him down, I forget the name of illness he had but almost attack the wife and then the baby, it was so hard to put him down, we had him for 8 years. We have one of his puppies which is almost 1year 2months old and looks just like him and I have been training him on the farm and he is doing so good, he is at 98 pounds already. It has always been a sad day when a dog of ours died are like the last one I had to put to sleep. BO grandma's big baby lasted 4 years after her death, he passed away on a friend of ours Farm in 1998. He would set behind the back door were she always came out, grandpa took BO to the farm and it helped him last longer.

I hope vick goes to prison.

talk about tugging at heart strings... that reminds me of "Old Yeller". ive always loved dobies but have to "settle: for our min pins. our male and his son escaped our fence about 2 months ago. now we live a 3 minute walk from the desert foothills and Walter (yes, our dog and daughter are both named after walter payton) is so small a jack rabbit would kick his ass and he would be a snack for a coyote.

i drove around for 5 hours looking for them, and was crushed when i couldnt find them. if they werent eaten or ran over i was sure somebody would keep them. thankfully they returned, which kinda suprised me cause it was the 1st time they escaped and i actually spoke to a walker who saw a lady trying to capture them. i have no idea how anyone finds the strength to go through a child who is kidnapped or missing.

our momma min pin is the big mean bitch though and i would put her up against a coyote any day.

i gotta hunnerd bucks on it.

Fu(k vick.

[ChronoCross]

DON'T FORGET ABOUT THE IRS ANGLE

Several readers have pointed out to us an important aspect to the entire Mike Vick investigation and prosecution.

If Vick was gambling, and winning, thousands of dollars, Vick likely wasn't declaring his dog fighting booty as income. And, thus, Vick would not have paid all of his applicable taxes. Which, in turn, would make him potentially responsible for tax evasion.

All money earned through any endeavor, legal or illegal, constitutes income. Several years ago, some NBA officials got in trouble for downgrading first-class airline tickets, pocketing the difference, and not reporting it as income.

Earlier this decade, former Vikings coach Mike "Meathead" Tice 'fessed up to scalping Super Bowl tickets. Though he never was prosecuted for tax evasion, it's our understanding that Tice was smart enough to make good with the IRS immediately.

For Vick, the mere act of making good with the IRS would constitute an admission to involvement in dog fighting. But failing to come clean and pay the tax man could only make the hole that he has dug for himself even deeper.