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Old 08-01-2007, 05:38 PM   #41
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Default Re: Winning the war....

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Jane Fonda was a republican? John Kerry was a republican? Those peace marchers, the ones who spit on soldiers, burned the flag and soldiers in effigy? They were all republicans?

Who knew?
"make no bones of this. don't try to sweep this under the rug. we are at war in vietnam. and yet the president, who is commander-in-chief of forces, refuses to say - refuses to say, mind you, whether or not the objective over there is victory. and his secretary of defense continues to mislead and misinform the american people, and enough of it has gone by." - Barry Goldwater Republican Convention 1964

the folks you mentioned didn't send us to war, john f kennedy sent troops and lydon johnson escalated.... i was addressing the politicians... not the activists.
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Old 08-01-2007, 05:39 PM   #42
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Default Re: Winning the war....

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It pleased me mightily, and I'm a moderate Republican (far right on economic, slightly left on social issues). I was happy to finally see straight reporting on exactly what went wrong and how it all happened, and it's refreshing that it isn't filtered through a political filter or spun in any way. This is a must read for people who want to be informed.
Its funny...

I am socially pretty conservative... typical conserv. on guns, abortion, etc.

I am economically conservative on taxes... but think there ARE areas for the feds to work in

What really is ticking me off is this...

Whitehouse: Is thinking that they have to simplify the message to such a degree that it becomes a sound bite so that the AMerican people can understand it.

Dems: twisting things to thier own political gain so that the Whitehouse tries to outsmart them by creating such a simple message.

IT IS ALL POLITICS...


I have ALWAYS been in full support of the war. I think it was needed, and am happy we are there.

I am unhappy about the political maneuvering by about 90 plus percent of our government surrounding it.


You want to know who I give the highest marks to for being clear-headed in all of this? Lieberman. If his stance on abortion was pro-life... and he ran for president, he would get my vote, even though I COMPLETELY disagree with him on most other social/economic issues...

Because that man has what almost EVERY OTHER politician lacks.... INTEGRITY
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Old 08-01-2007, 05:58 PM   #43
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Default Re: Winning the war....

Here's my solution to the problem with the abortion issue, which is a giant hot potato that galvanizes giant voter blocs and is enormously polarizing: States rights. Federalism reigns supreme, and we let the individual states vote on the issue. I'm shocked that no candidate has proposed this. It's the only logical way to deal with this increasingly controversial issue.
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Old 08-02-2007, 11:39 AM   #44
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Default Re: Winning the war....

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It pleased me mightily, and I'm a moderate Republican (far right on economic, slightly left on social issues). I was happy to finally see straight reporting on exactly what went wrong and how it all happened, and it's refreshing that it isn't filtered through a political filter or spun in any way. This is a must read for people who want to be informed.

You and I have a lot in common politically, then. I will definitly read this book.
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Old 08-02-2007, 11:42 AM   #45
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Default Re: Winning the war....

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You want to know who I give the highest marks to for being clear-headed in all of this? Lieberman. If his stance on abortion was pro-life... and he ran for president, he would get my vote, even though I COMPLETELY disagree with him on most other social/economic issues...

Because that man has what almost EVERY OTHER politician lacks.... INTEGRITY

I agree...Lieberman is about the only level headed Democrat (or politician, period) that I have trust in his integrity.
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Old 08-05-2007, 12:59 PM   #46
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You and I have a lot in common politically, then. I will definitly read this book.
Tommy Franks gets blasted pretty hard, too. One thing is sure, and that's that he's no Stormin' Norman.
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Old 08-05-2007, 08:24 PM   #47
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Default Re: Winning the war....

The ongoing tales of mismanagement are depressing

The Pentagon has lost track of about 190,000 AK-47 assault rifles and pistols given to Iraqi security forces in 2004 and 2005, according to a new government report, raising fears that some of those weapons have fallen into the hands of insurgents fighting U.S. forces in Iraq.


"They really have no idea where they are," said Rachel Stohl, a senior analyst at the Center for Defense Information who has studied small-arms trade and received Pentagon briefings on the issue. "It likely means that the United States is unintentionally providing weapons to bad actors."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...l?hpid=topnews
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Old 08-06-2007, 05:06 PM   #48
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Default Re: Winning the war....

This is a matter of perspective. These negative articles always have the mitigating circumstances buried. For instance:

But, the commander argued, "there was, frankly, not much of a choice early on: We had very little staff and could have held the weapons until every piece of the logistical and property accountability system was in place, or we could issue them, in bulk on some occasions, to the U.S. elements supporting Iraqi units who were needed in the battles of Najaf, Fallujah, Mosul, Samarra, etc."

Which is pretty self explanatory. There is also a reference to the arms cache that wasn't guarded, and was subsequently looted, which you can blame directly on Rumsfeld and Franks. McKeirnan desperately wanted more troops to guard the supply lines, and Franks and Rummy just wanted as fast of a push as possible. If you don't hold your gains, things like this will happen. The article also notes that the defense department was heavily and unusually involved. That is once again all Rummy.
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Old 08-06-2007, 05:26 PM   #49
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Default Re: Winning the war....

What is not discussed at all it seems... is the other issue of the military...

There is a thought that there will be no more wars where armies draw lines and battle against each other. As a result, the push is Spec. Forces, smart bombs, etc. The other side is traditionalists that believe that war, at the end, has to be fought at company/regiment level.

Look at the war through this prism... All the arguments on BOTH sides make a lot of sense... and it takes it out of the "Bush Sucks" "Their unpatriotic" polarized argument, and into the "What worked, what didn't and how can we find the middle" discussion.

Oh wait, that means that one of the parties will not get to win political points... nevermind.

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Old 08-06-2007, 06:25 PM   #50
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Default Re: Winning the war....

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What is not discussed at all it seems... is the other issue of the military...

There is a thought that there will be no more wars where armies draw lines and battle against each other. As a result, the push is Spec. Forces, smart bombs, etc. The other side is traditionalists that believe that war, at the end, has to be fought at company/regiment level.

Look at the war through this prism... All the arguments on BOTH sides make a lot of sense... and it takes it out of the "Bush Sucks" "Their unpatriotic" polarized argument, and into the "What worked, what didn't and how can we find the middle" discussion.

Oh wait, that means that one of the parties will not get to win political points... nevermind.

That's a great point. The problem is that every conflict is different. Because we had tons of assets on the ground, the War in Afghanistan was fought with a few SOF troops who recruited and used existing anti-Taliban forces, and things went remarkably well. Rummy assumed the same scenario would repeat in Iraq, and the intelligence was so awful thet they quite literally had the almost opposite plan that they needed. It's actually incredible to read how adaptable our military actually is, and how they were able to overcome massive incompetence at the top in planning to overcome that terrible planning. The lesson? On the ground intelligence is worth a few hundred thousand troops, and if you don't have the former, you damned well better have the latter.
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