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Old 09-04-2007, 10:21 PM   #21
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Default Re: Dale Jr. Critical of #8 Fans...

Quote:
Originally Posted by tony hipchest View Post
very well then. if ignoring empirical statistical data that the average per capita income of nascar fans exceeds that of the other 4 major sports makes that degree hanging on your wall that much bigger , then more power to ya.

my bad. when gordons sponsors have included bugs bunny, sesame street, star wars, frito's, and pepsi, i just figured the targeted demographic was obvious.

anyways, you catch the CMT production of DALE? very nicely done if you ask me. especially for a hick television broadcast. im sure necks all across america are drying their tears with their wifebeaters as we speak.

the candid approach of dale jr. speaking about his fathers death is admirable, although im not sure that the death of a hero and a father transcends socio-economical lines. maybe its different amongst the whine and cheese crowd....

lol
Prove the first sentence and you win. Not "observed data", by the way, I want cold hard data. I already know it, so anything you have contrary will be interesting. Good luck and have at it...
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Old 09-04-2007, 10:30 PM   #22
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Default Re: Dale Jr. Critical of #8 Fans...

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Originally Posted by revefsreleets View Post
Ah, forget it, I can't resist. Before you walk into the trap, I'll spring it.

On one hand, you can't resist bringing up purist elements of NASCAR, the "old school element", if you will, but only superficially. You align yourself with the anti-Gordon camp, tossing around a bunch of gay talk and all that. But when you are actually drawn into a conversation, you end up quoting how upscale NASCAR is becoming and has become, spouting off a bunch of nonsense about incomes versus NFL and NBA and all that. Beside the fact that you are mostly wrong in all that, the best bit is that you are using your own argument against yourself! NASCAR is what it is now due to drivers from states other than in the SE, people who can talk and look good and can market product. You can't have it both ways, Tony, even when you think you can.
lol. yeah, your bow out argument is that calculated.

if davey allison hadnt died and jeff gordon never came along NASCAR would be in exactly the same position it is today. jeff gordon is not NASCAR just like the patriots are not the NFL. the parallels amongst die hard newbie gordon fans and patriot fans are uncanny. i guess NASCAR never thought of racing at indy until gordon came along, right? lol
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Old 09-04-2007, 10:46 PM   #23
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Default Re: Dale Jr. Critical of #8 Fans...

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Originally Posted by revefsreleets View Post
Prove the first sentence and you win. Not "observed data", by the way, I want cold hard data. I already know it, so anything you have contrary will be interesting. Good luck and have at it...
while i accept it as a common truth this is the quickest search i turned up-

http://www.bookmarket.com/statistics.html

Quote:
Racing Fans

42% of NASCAR racing fans earn more than $50,000 per year. 40% are women. NASCAR is the second highest rated sport on TV. Thirteen million people attended NASCAR races last year. Fans spent over $1 billion on officially licensed NASCAR products in 2001. John's Comments: Racing fans are more rabid than hockey, soccer, baseball, or basketball fans. You don't have to publish NASCAR-licensed books to get their attention. They love all sorts of car racing, from Formula One, NASCAR, sprint cars, and more.
lol. this article is from 1995

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/m...34/ai_16837879



Quote:
NASCAR (National Association of Stock Car Auto Racing), the country's premier racing group, is on fire. Sales of NASCAR-licensed products totaled $400 million in 1994, with mass market apparel credited for about $50 million. While these numbers still don't approach those of the big four, Major League Baseball, National Football League, National Basketball Association and Nation Hockey League, NASCAR is burning rubber on the sports merchandising highway.

The demographics of NASCAR's fan base may surprise those unfamiliar with the sport. The idea that it's only composed of low-income workers from the deep South is a misconception--dust trails can be detected from coast to coast.

NASCAR research shows that 29 percent of fans command yearly household incomes of $50,000 or higher, with 27 percent holding professional or managerial positions. Fans of all ages enjoy the sport, with the highest concentration in the 25- to 44-year-old bracket. Thirty-eight percent of total fans are female.

"NASCAR fans range from the gas station mechanic who really knows cars, to the vice president of corporation XYZ who enjoys the intensity of the sport, to the teenage girl who likes to watch Jeff Gordon, a driver in his early 20s who is truly one of the sport's rising stars," says Charlie Cooper, director of marketing for NASCAR Properties, based in Atlanta.

NASCAR's popularity was built slowly. Created in 1948, NASCAR built its core fan base in typical grassroots style. Die-hard racing aficionados used to attend events at dirt tracks near their homes.

The cable television boom of the '80s helped to bring NASCAR into the limelight. Outfits like TNT and SportsChannel signed lucrative telecast deals. ESPN is currently making a big push with quippy commercials that say, "Find out why NASCAR is your car."

i thought this was common knowledge based on current statistical data gathered. ive heard it in national broadcasts. so what do you know?
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Old 09-05-2007, 05:41 PM   #24
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Default Re: Dale Jr. Critical of #8 Fans...

Since your "facts" seem to be largely preconceived notions masquerading as legitimate truths, I thought I'd reel this back in a bit with some real data. There's some interesting stuff here. You should read it.

"Bowling and NASCAR" demo's mirror each other"
http://www.bowlingworld.com/pdf/sep05/page23.pdf

Wal-mart demos
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/m..._1/ai_93089469

NFL demo's
http://blog.tk-tv.com:80/2007/01/30/...erbowl-41.aspx

Home Improvement shopper demo's
http://www.retailforward.com/memberc...pperupdate.pdf

Gordon's impact on racing and fan base
http://www.rochestercitynewspaper.co...king+moonshine

"According to Performance Research, a Newport, RI-based firm, 40% of NASCAR fans are women, 46% have college degrees, and (ONLY, I'd like to point out. This pales in comparison to NFL and College football fan incomes) 43% are in households with incomes of more than $40,000.
http://www.kellogg.northwestern.edu/...s/050315rb.htm

NASCAR marketing 101
http://www.gordonline.com/commish/030105.html

"I have a suspicion that the middle to lower-middle class is their largest fan base, and people are getting laid off," says Jon Ackley, a Virginia Commonwealth University professor who teaches a course on NASCAR economics."
http://www.usatoday.com/sports/motor...ar-cover_x.htm

Finally, and most importantly, I need to address your attempt to use the demographics of NASCAR both for and against yourself, since that is literally what you are doing. You accuse me of being a Gordon fan, which, in your words, makes me gay, whiny, and a fair weather fan, yet you don't hesitate to defend the sport by over-exaggerating the economic impact of the "new NASCAR fan", which I definitely am. In short, you are trying to have it both ways, ripping someone like me, but also using my socio-economic status (I'm young, a college graduate, have an income on the higher end of the spectrum we are talking about, and was attracted to the sport ONLY by the younger drivers, the guys I could relate too) as an argument for NASCAR, but cyclically against me all at the same time. It's not only disingenuous and nonsensical, it's also hypocritical.
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Old 09-05-2007, 06:58 PM   #25
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Default Re: Dale Jr. Critical of #8 Fans...

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Originally Posted by revefsreleets View Post

Finally, and most importantly, I need to address your attempt to use the demographics of NASCAR both for and against yourself, since that is literally what you are doing. You accuse me of being a Gordon fan, which, in your words, makes me gay, whiny, and a fair weather fan, yet you don't hesitate to defend the sport by over-exaggerating the economic impact of the "new NASCAR fan", which I definitely am. In short, you are trying to have it both ways, ripping someone like me, but also using my socio-economic status (I'm young, a college graduate, have an income on the higher end of the spectrum we are talking about, and was attracted to the sport ONLY by the younger drivers, the guys I could relate too) as an argument for NASCAR, but cyclically against me all at the same time. It's not only disingenuous and nonsensical, it's also hypocritical.
you really think im gonna read an article on wal mart demographics? lol. absolutely no relevance whatsoever. actually, i had to quit reading the articles altogether because they were all fluff.

Quote:
NFL fans are more likely to have high incomes, have more education, and be more receptive to advertising than the general population
yeah big deal. nascar fans are more likely to have higer incomes than the general population too.

i used nascars demographics to break down your stereotypes. if you feel like you are being ripped, that is not the intention. however i think its highly hypocritical and closed minded to quote all the "young drivers" who have drawn the new fans and their cash, when what you really mean is all the young drivers that you like. how can you truly believe that gordon only attracts rich snooty people, and earnhardt jr. only attracts white trailer trash, redneck scum?

its simply false. if what you said were true, logic says since jr. and his father had the largest fanbase, the actual demographics and per capita income of these fans would be dragging down the average nascar fans per capita income as a whole.

anyways, i know breaking down peoples stereotypes and prejudices is about impossible. just remember, when you slam jr.s fanbase with stereotypes you are slamming your own drivers fanbase and the fanbase of nascar as a whole (which means me). so whose the hypocrite?
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Old 09-05-2007, 07:23 PM   #26
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Default Re: Dale Jr. Critical of #8 Fans...

I remember when I knew everything, and couldn't be dissuaded. Thank God, I've learned a lot since then. I posted up some links to sites which refute your nonsensical arguments about Lowe's vs Wal-Mart and other wild stuff that you made up or actually believe to be true. Funny that you refer to fact and educated opinion as "fluff'. That says a lot. It's all there if you want to educate yourself. Anyway, let's wrap this up.

Let's just take one example of you, again, taking your own thoughts and purporting them to be fact. NASCAR fans are more likely to have higher incomes than the US population? Nope. Here are the facts:

Income distribution
U.S. pop. NASCAR fans
$30-50,000 22% 29%
$50-75,000 18% 22%
$75-100,000 12% 12%
$100,000+ 9% 8%

NASCAR skews a little toward the low end, and this is against the average US population, not NFL or college football viewers, who trend a lot more affluent. But this is all water under the bridge. You said that NASCAR fans were the most affluent and you were dead wrong, again.

As far as Junior and his fans, you should read back through the thread. I was the one who stated that he was underrated from a marketing standpoint. Your reaction was to call Hendricks fans gay. Heady stuff. But to correct you (yet again), when I correctly categorize a certain demographic of Jr. fans from a marketing standpoint, I am in no way impugning my own socio-economic standing, nor am I in any way detracting or disparaging a sport which I watch and enjoy every week.

My arguments are consistent, my points are clear and concise, and I've cited sources. I'm not sure what else there is to do or say here, other than I'd recommend reading some of the stuff I've posted if you are really interested in learning more about the intricacies of marketing.
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Old 09-05-2007, 07:47 PM   #27
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Default Re: Dale Jr. Critical of #8 Fans...

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I remember when I knew everything, and couldn't be dissuaded.
so do i.:
Quote:
It's a bunch of assward backed hilljack rednecks who have no idea what is actually occurring just lashing out at whatever easy target they can find. And these are the smart ones who actually went to the library and figured out how to get online. These are the same people who are gonna have a real challenge cheering against themselves next year, but it might be fun to watch!
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Thank God, I've learned a lot since then.
obviously not.

thanks for the little marketing lessons, but i read enough to realize they were insignificant to the meat and potatoes of this thread. marketing is fairly simple and i dont need a tutor in that area anyways.

it doesnt take a genius to figure out dale jr. is gonna be a bigger marketing tool to the hip-hop crowd, as opposed to mark martin, even though they both like to bump a little 50-cent before a race, equally.

good luck with the bigotry.
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Old 09-05-2007, 08:11 PM   #28
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Default Re: Dale Jr. Critical of #8 Fans...

Well, there's no need to stop, I guess. I'm not sure why you want to dig a deeper hole, but, hey, it's your dime:

Quote:
Originally Posted by -tony knows marketing
what a dense statement. if i didnt think all gordon & johnson fans were a bunch of butt plugging, cheese cutting, whine sipping, homos, i might object. and these are the ones who take the penis out of their rear long enough to actually sit down and watch a race and pull the schlong out of their throats long enough to bitch about it. all the others are bandwaggon jumping spermbanks who cant say shit.
Bear in mind, my "quote" was directed at the same fans who Dale Earnhardt Jr. was blasting HIMSELF, in the original post. It's weird arguing with a guy who doesn't even remember what he's already posted, let alone knowing nothing about the subject matter he's vehemently arguing about. It's almost surreal.

And if you think marketing is fairly simple, why are companies like Pepsi spending 100 million a year trying to solve the riddle that you, of all people, have apparently solved? Perhaps they should all just hire you.
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Old 09-05-2007, 08:28 PM   #29
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Default Re: Dale Jr. Critical of #8 Fans...

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Originally Posted by revefsreleets View Post
Well, there's no need to stop, I guess. I'm not sure why you want to dig a deeper hole, but, hey, it's your dime:



Bear in mind, my "quote" was directed at the same fans who Dale Earnhardt Jr. was blasting HIMSELF, in the original post. It's weird arguing with a guy who doesn't even remember what he's already posted, let alone knowing nothing about the subject matter he's vehemently arguing about. It's almost surreal.

And if you think marketing is fairly simple, why are companies like Pepsi spending 100 million a year trying to solve the riddle that you, of all people, have apparently solved? Perhaps they should all just hire you.
i havent applied.

your really think i truly believe that quote you quoted? when i got more time i wanna piss against a wall to cure bigotry i'll give you a lesson in satire and sarcasm 101. nice attempt to deflect from your stereotypes though. but then, this has already been covered, now hasnt it?

like i said, for anyone to trash any fans of any driver in that manner is akin to trashing the nascar fanbase as a whole. (and akin to trashing ones self). i appreciate ALL the fans who have made this sport grow, (i now longer have to defend it even being called a sport like in times past) and while i may not like a driver, i can appreciate their contributions. NASCAR would not be better if jeff gordon ripped his skull from his spinal column in a firey wreck.

and jr wasnt "blasting" anyone in the way you were. he was simply making a plea. too late to put the cat in the bag on what you said (with full intent of being an insult without the satire and sarcasm that was obvious in my post). no way, what jr. said in a press conference can sugar coat your beliefs. what is surreal is that you think it can.

anyways, since you know so much, how come Pepsi hasnt hired you?
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Old 09-05-2007, 08:38 PM   #30
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Default Re: Dale Jr. Critical of #8 Fans...

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anyways, since you know so much, how come Pepsi hasnt hired you?
I'm young. I'm the Vice President of Sales and Marketing for a multimedia/production company. We're young and aggressive and cutting edge. We have several Fortune 50 clients. Maybe I will land there or somewhere like it one day. But I doubt it. I like the creative side, and I'm not greedy.
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