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Old 09-05-2007, 09:02 PM   #31
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Default Re: Dale Jr. Critical of #8 Fans...

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I'm young. I'm the Vice President of Sales and Marketing for a multimedia/production company. We're young and aggressive and cutting edge. We have several Fortune 50 clients. Maybe I will land there or somewhere like it one day. But I doubt it. I like the creative side, and I'm not greedy.


well heres a little marketing lesson, maybe you havent learned. in this day and age, when NASCAR is focused on growth and expansion, the last type of fan (or vp of sales and marketing) they need is one who perpetuates the stereotypes that have held it back in the past. especially a fan who denies the driver they root for.

good luck with pepsi and selling it to the rich because i doubt a corp like ISCA would touch you with a 10 foot pole.

and i have some advice for pepsi/frito lay too. targetting rich people who make up a small % of the population (who belong to health clubs and drink evian water and $5 lattes), isnt gonna gain you much market share. its better to target all the fat lazy kids who are playing x-box and drinking cokes and eating dorito's. thats where the $$$ comes from. unless it is proven that rich people eat more chips in a single sitting and drink more liquids in a single sitting.

and for that bit of advice i dont even expect a slice of the $100 million pie. (its all about global recognition for a corporation that big anyways)
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Old 09-05-2007, 09:16 PM   #32
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Default Re: Dale Jr. Critical of #8 Fans...

Bravo! That's exactly the kind of response I expect from you, and you didn't disappoint. It's a mix of ignorance and misplaced arrogance. Stereotypes? You've stereotyped me a hundred times, and I'm EXACTLY the kind of fan NASCAR wants and is marketing to. NASCAR isn't stereotyping anyone, you nitwit! They want diversity, and they want it for marketing reasons, and maybe even a little bit to balance their books concerning fans like you and minorities and others, etc...

It's not about rich, either, it's about disposable income. Marketing is pretty complex, and I've spent 10 years trying to figure it out and am just now getting a good grasp. I'm trying hard to be diplomatic when I don't have to be...You know, It wouldn't kill you to concede here.
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Old 09-05-2007, 09:30 PM   #33
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Default Re: Dale Jr. Critical of #8 Fans...

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Bravo! That's exactly the kind of response I expect from you, and you didn't disappoint. It's a mix of ignorance and misplaced arrogance. Stereotypes? You've stereotyped me a hundred times, and I'm EXACTLY the kind of fan NASCAR wants and is marketing to. NASCAR isn't stereotyping anyone, you nitwit! They want diversity, and they want it for marketing reasons, and maybe even a little bit to balance their books concerning fans like you and minorities and others, etc...

It's not about rich, either, it's about disposable income. Marketing is pretty complex, and I've spent 10 years trying to figure it out and am just now getting a good grasp. I'm trying hard to be diplomatic when I don't have to be...You know, It wouldn't kill you to concede here.
its obvious marketing isnt that complex. if it makes you feel better, i can concede that i would probably have a tough time weaving a basket the 1st or 2nd go around. after that, it would be like tying my shoes.

if i were on the verge of a concession a person like me would probably resort to personal attacks as one final battle stand, now wouldnt they?

again, good luck with the bigotry.
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Old 09-06-2007, 01:56 AM   #34
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Default Re: Dale Jr. Critical of #8 Fans...

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Bravo! That's exactly the kind of response I expect from you, and you didn't disappoint. It's a mix of ignorance and misplaced arrogance. Stereotypes? You've stereotyped me a hundred times, NASCAR isn't stereotyping anyone, you nitwit! They want diversity, and they want it for marketing reasons, and maybe even a little bit to balance their books concerning fans like you and minorities and others, etc...

It's not about rich, either, it's about disposable income. Marketing is pretty complex, and I've spent 10 years trying to figure it out and am just now getting a good grasp. I'm trying hard to be diplomatic when I don't have to be...You know, It wouldn't kill you to concede here.
this is just too good to not touch back on.

misplaced arrogance?

Quote:
and I'm EXACTLY the kind of fan NASCAR wants and is marketing to.
Quote:
Stereotypes? You've stereotyped me a hundred times,
a hundered times huh? list them. i simply called you out for what you are. a gordon fan. no shame in that is there? you can deny it and i may actually believe it this time.

Quote:
NASCAR isn't stereotyping anyone.
exactly! the only one stereotyping here is YOU.

Quote:
They want diversity, and they want it for marketing reasons,
are you really suggesting that nascars marketing directives are towards white, republican, above average income, persons such as yourself? LOL nascar has got that market sewn up (note that i am using your own argument against you). i guess with the juan pablo montoya experiment and busch races in mexico, nascar doesnt know whether it is coming or going, huh?

wrong. nascar has got you hooked and they have shifted their campaign away from your types several years ago. (for those not keen upon sales techniques... this is what we call staying ahead of the market as opposed to chasing it). thinking of yourself as the representative of "diversity" is hilarious. you are as typical of a NASCAR fan as it gets. *waits for you to inject redneck stereotypes here*

Quote:
misplaced arrogance
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Old 09-07-2007, 07:30 AM   #35
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Default Re: Dale Jr. Critical of #8 Fans...

Oh Tony, this is becoming pathetic. But you continue to post, and I guess it's kind of admirable that you keep fighting even after the war is over.

First, your insistence that marketing is simple is ridiculous, so let's put that to rest. Now I certainly understand your position. You (clearly) don't know much about it, and obviously don't care much about it, or have any interest in it, so for you it probably is fairly simple. But this type of logic is fallacious. For instance, it's like arguing that since the space shuttle and a paper airplane both function at the most basic level using the same laws of physics, the space shuttle is not complex. In fact, the space shuttle has over a million working parts and is the most complex vehicle ever designed. But they both fly, so...

Furthermore, I'm quite sure that Harvard and Wharton wouldn't offer PhD programs in marketing if it was "simple". I mean, think about it. Marketing is a multi-billion dollar business, and it permeates our lives. From the morning paper, to tv, radio, internet, magazines, billboard, even church bulletins, marketing is ubiquitous. Marketing combines philosophy, art, logic, sociology, psychology, anthropology, even mathematics (statistics, anyone?) all to form almost a science of influencing people. It might even be correct to say that marketing is one of the most complex professions in the world.

Finally, addressing this mish-mosh of stuff in the last post of yours. Nascar doesn't want me? Insane! They need people with disposable income, preferably younger rather than old, and they vigorously re-branded themselves to appeal to people just like me. As for the idea that Nascar "stopped marketing to me", again, ridiculous. Do you think Chrysler or Toyota is done advertising to the people who have already bought their cars? Absolutely not. It's all about building and KEEPING brand loyalty. Nascar will, in fact, never stop marketing to me. As for diversity, one of the biggest reason Nascar wants to expand it's diversity program (besides the obvious wedge into foreign markets) is to appease a more highbrow crowd. If you want to market to people in Manhattan and Seattle, you can't be perceived as cross burning rednecks.

Finally, let's stop with the "bigotry". It's clear you are misusing the word. "Stubborn and complete intolerance of any creed, belief, or opinion that differs from one's own." That certainly sounds like one of the people posting in this thread, and I'll give you a hint: It's not me.

I almost can't wait to see what kind of irrelevant opinion of yours you offer as retort.
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Old 09-09-2007, 08:54 PM   #36
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Default Re: Dale Jr. Critical of #8 Fans...

real mature move dragging this conversation into the locker room. i was more than happy making you look foolish in the confines of this back room thread that hardly anyone even reads.

i dont blame you for desperately seeking out other steelersfever posters to back you up though. you can use all the help you can get.

comparing marketing to rocket science has got to be the finest example of "misguided arrogance" i have ever seen.

i'll get back to the rest of your rhetoric when i am more bored. for now i would prefer to watch a freaking cowboys game and talk some football.

until then, this will sit on the back burner along with some of LITP's bogus diatribe that still needs addressed.

i dont know what is worse. him thinking the jets are a great team or you thinking marketing is rocket science.

very trivial claims on both fronts. since youre a fellow steeler fan and nascar fan, i may bestow you the honor of having your trash aknowledged first. although litp is doing his typical preening around the board, so it just depends on who deserves to be busted down a notch,

commercial breaks over. back to the game....
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Old 09-12-2007, 10:08 PM   #37
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Default Re: Dale Jr. Critical of #8 Fans...

LOL!

Are you serious, though? I mean, I need to know. Do you really think you are making me "look foolish"? You cited one measly source throughout. Your whole argument is based on riffing off your own opinion, and on a subject you are woefully uneducated on. On top of cyclical arguments, you actually tried taking my own points and, without converting them, tried to make them your own in some kind of ****ed up reverse, reverse psychology (which is much more likely you actually citing my own earlier logical arguments as your new facts) as your own arguments.

In fact, I've never debated someone who was more messy and all over the place. When Atlanta Dan got frustrated because he could only quote quickie op/ed pieces, he put me on ignore and let it go. Well, actually, that's not true. He then started a "look at me" thread where he called me out and looked for sympathy, but I digress.

As always, the invitation is open, but for Christs sake, will you read at least SOMETHING about the topic before you trip all over your uninformed opinions again?

http://www.marketingpower.com/

http://www.marketingprofs.com/2/whatismarketing.asp

http://www.brandrepublic.com/marketing/

714,000 books on this “simple subject”
http://www.amazon.com/s?ie=UTF8&keyw...x=books&page=1

http://www.marketing.org/

http://www.marketingvox.com/

Most excellent

http://www.answers.com/topic/marketing?cat=biz-fin
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Old 09-13-2007, 07:33 PM   #38
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Default Re: Dale Jr. Critical of #8 Fans...

I got a PM that reminded me to keep this all in perspective (not from a mod, just another poster who likes both our "material"). I may have been a bit harsh in my last post, Tony, and I apologize. My position doesn't change one iota, and I still think you argued yourself into a corner that you had no way out of, but that doesn't give me the right to be disrespectful.
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Old 09-13-2007, 07:54 PM   #39
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Default Re: Dale Jr. Critical of #8 Fans...

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I got a PM that reminded me to keep this all in perspective (not from a mod, just another poster who likes both our "material"). I may have been a bit harsh in my last post, Tony, and I apologize. My position doesn't change one iota, and I still think you argued yourself into a corner that you had no way out of, but that doesn't give me the right to be disrespectful.
no problem, and apology accepted (although probably unnecessary).

i enjoy the banter and dont expect you to change your position. BTW, im about halfway through the 714,000 books you cited as a source, and i'll get back when im done

this is like a fast paced game of pente, as opposed to a long drawn out game of chess. when i get backed into a corner, i have no problem, saying "good one", wiping the stones off the board, and getting on to the next game.

my stones are still on the board in regards to the jr. fans all being rednecks, and marketing being compared to rocket science.



oh, and a little off subject, but i just had a nice short convo with litp about the comparrisons of hendrick (NASCAR), mcclaren (F-1), and patriots (NFL) all being on top of their leagues, yet all getting busted for cheating.

(i think dragging atlanta dan into the conversation may be what prompted the PM)
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Old 09-13-2007, 08:46 PM   #40
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Default Re: Dale Jr. Critical of #8 Fans...

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no problem, and apology accepted (although probably unnecessary).

i enjoy the banter and dont expect you to change your position. BTW, im about halfway through the 714,000 books you cited as a source, and i'll get back when im done

this is like a fast paced game of pente, as opposed to a long drawn out game of chess. when i get backed into a corner, i have no problem, saying "good one", wiping the stones off the board, and getting on to the next game.

my stones are still on the board in regards to the jr. fans all being rednecks, and marketing being compared to rocket science.



oh, and a little off subject, but i just had a nice short convo with litp about the comparrisons of hendrick (NASCAR), mcclaren (F-1), and patriots (NFL) all being on top of their leagues, yet all getting busted for cheating.

(i think dragging atlanta dan into the conversation may be what prompted the PM)
Most of Dale Jr's fans aren't the problem, and still aren't who I called out. Marketing is still Einsteinian in it's complexity. NASCAR is irrelevant in the NFL argument because it's 53 players versus thousands of hidden moving parts, but, you know, other than that, right on.

Oh, and AD drug ME into it by starting the secondary thread all about me without naming me, and no, that wasn't mentioned at all in the PM.
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