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Old 11-08-2007, 08:42 AM   #21
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Default Re: SI - Patriots won't go undefeated

This brings up an interesting question. Has anyone here ever talked to or met a Patriots fan that actually admitted they were a frontrunning bandwagoner? Statistically speaking, it seems impossible that EVERY single fan has been a fan since the team came into existence.
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Old 11-08-2007, 08:45 AM   #22
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Default Re: SI - Patriots won't go undefeated

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This brings up an interesting question. Has anyone here ever talked to or met a Patriots fan that actually admitted they were a frontrunning bandwagoner? Statistically speaking, it seems impossible that EVERY single fan has been a fan since the team came into existence.
Good point - since this guy is such a "long-time fan," I wonder what his views are on the 1976 AFC Divisional playoff game between the Pats and Raiders?
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Old 11-08-2007, 09:14 AM   #23
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Default Re: SI - Patriots won't go undefeated

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Good point - since this guy is such a "long-time fan," I wonder what his views are on the 1976 AFC Divisional playoff game between the Pats and Raiders?
It was robbery, the Sugar Bear Hamilton Late Hit call was one of the worst calls of the history of the NFL and it robbed the Patriots of a superbowl that year.
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Old 11-08-2007, 09:29 AM   #24
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Default Re: SI - Patriots won't go undefeated

Half an hour to Google the game. I'm not convinced.

Regardless, this reminds of the perfect game Lenny Barker pitched for the Indians. It was just another game, and there were probably 15,000 fans at the game (and I'm being generous. In 1981 the Tribe didn't draw at all). But over the years literally hundreds of thousands of Indians fans have made the claim of being at that game.
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Old 11-08-2007, 09:37 AM   #25
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Default Re: SI - Patriots won't go undefeated

I actually agree with a lot of the original post. 15th, 16th game in the season...Injuries happen...especially when you play tough defenses...

I don't see them going undefeated...Sorry Pats fans...I can't see it...
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Old 11-08-2007, 09:39 AM   #26
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Default Re: SI - Patriots won't go undefeated

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Regardless, this reminds of the perfect game Lenny Barker pitched for the Indians. It was just another game, and there were probably 15,000 fans at the game (and I'm being generous. In 1981 the Tribe didn't draw at all). But over the years literally hundreds of thousands of Indians fans have made the claim of being at that game.
The "Woodstock phenomenon" - 500,000 or so actually were present, but there are literally MILLIONS of Baby Boomers that claim to have been there.
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Old 11-08-2007, 11:15 AM   #27
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Default Re: SI - Patriots won't go undefeated

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The "Woodstock phenomenon" - 500,000 or so actually were present, but there are literally MILLIONS of Baby Boomers that claim to have been there.
i was there !!! ......oh wait....that was monsters of rock....
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Old 11-08-2007, 02:58 PM   #28
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Default Re: SI - Patriots won't go undefeated

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Walk me through how the Pats can take greatness "to the next level" if they cannot lose any less games than the '72 Dolphins did and will not have as many HOF players as the 70s Steelers did?

Winning 2 road games against playoff teams are hardly the "biggest tests any team could face."
Easy.. if (and that's a big if) they were to go undefeated, they would have had to win two more games than the Dolphins. Secondly, they would have done it in the salary cap era and free agency. Thirdly, I think you underestimate those opponents by just calling them "2 road games against playoff opponents". Its more than that. They have hung the only losses on those teams. One of which is the defending superbowl champion widely acknowledged as being better this year than last year. The second is projected by many to be the NFC's representative. Overall, the opponents the Patriots have and will face this year will be far superior to what the 72 Dolphins faced. They may very well have beaten two teams that will end the season with 15-1 or 14-2 records (not to mention a Steelers team we'd project to win 12-13 games). The dominance the 2007 Cowboys, Colts, and Steelers have displayed this year would normally warrant them to be Superbowl favorites and listed among the all time greats. To go undefeated competing against this level of competition would warrant them being called the greatest ever if they were to go 19-0 in my opinion.
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Old 11-08-2007, 04:12 PM   #29
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Default Re: SI - Patriots won't go undefeated

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Not at all man, been a Pat's fan since I was 7. I've sat on those cold benches in Foxboro during the 2-14 seasons with Rod Rust. Been with them thru think and thin.
And now things are thick and will continue to be thick as long as the greatest QB in the history of football Tommy Trophy suits up for us.

Question for you guys, when the Pats are picking 5th in the first round of the 08 draft, what should they do ? Hard to believe isn't it, this great team with the #5 pick, man the NFL should just cancel the next 2 seasons and hand the Lombardi over to Bob Kraft and save everyone the trouble.
While I can almost appreciate your blue and red colored glasses and how your predictioin for supremacy is understood - it's also absolutely ridiculous!!!!

Eventually the CAP catches up with every so-called great team. And while your team has been breaking records this year they also haven't won the whole thing yet. Your team is nothing but a fascade of what it really is - a bunch of hooligan's who have no respect and no class.

And while it is possible that the patria-cheats go undefeated for the regular season, it is the pompous, arrogant attitude in the New England area that will get them eliminated from the playoffs - second round by the clowns. Then everyone will be upset because they didn't get to see the rematch that CBS is hoping to see.

And now that Beli-cheat can't use "HIS" Films, what will he do moving forward?

And even though you have an early draft next year - what will you do when your franchise can't afford to start keeping these players around? The patriots will once again fall into oblivion!!!

And the world will be right once again!!!
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Old 11-08-2007, 04:44 PM   #30
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Default Re: SI - Patriots won't go undefeated

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Easy.. if (and that's a big if) they were to go undefeated, they would have had to win two more games than the Dolphins. Secondly, they would have done it in the salary cap era and free agency. Thirdly, I think you underestimate those opponents by just calling them "2 road games against playoff opponents". Its more than that. They have hung the only losses on those teams. One of which is the defending superbowl champion widely acknowledged as being better this year than last year. The second is projected by many to be the NFC's representative. Overall, the opponents the Patriots have and will face this year will be far superior to what the 72 Dolphins faced. They may very well have beaten two teams that will end the season with 15-1 or 14-2 records (not to mention a Steelers team we'd project to win 12-13 games). The dominance the 2007 Cowboys, Colts, and Steelers have displayed this year would normally warrant them to be Superbowl favorites and listed among the all time greats. To go undefeated competing against this level of competition would warrant them being called the greatest ever if they were to go 19-0 in my opinion.
Eric - You have a fairly skewed view of what constitutes a high level of competition, which I bet is because (no insult intended here) your viewing memories probably go back at best through the mid-80s.

IMO it was tougher in the pre-cap 70s when you had a number of great teams in the league and several good teams in the same division due to talent not being dispersed.

If you look at the NFL America's Game series, 5 of the 10 SB winning teams from the 70s (72 Dolphins, 75 Steelers, 76 Raiders, 77 Cowboys, and 78 Steelers) made the top 10 teams for that show. Those teams won the SB with the same players in other years and, when not winning, were usually the competition for the teams that did win.

In addition, because of the concentration of talent, the 70s Steelers did not have the annual cakewalk through their division that the Pats have. For example, the 75 Steelers went 12-2 (they rested starters in losing game 14 to the Rams) in the AFC Central, while the Bengals went 11-3 and Oilers went 10-4 (Bengals and Oilers went 21-3 in combined games not played against the Steelers that sesson). Steelers then went on to face the Madden/Stabler Raiders and Landry/Staubach Cowboys in the playoffs. Not exactly the same as having 6 regular season games against the Jets, Bills and Dolphins folllowed by an anticipated meeting in the SB with the Wade Philllips/Tony Romo Cowboys, is it now?

New England is a very impresive post-cap team, but the idea that their depth of talent or the depth of competition they have faced is anything approaching the greatest is not supported by any minimal analysis of prior eras. Even being better than the 72 Dolphins would not even get you into the finals of any computer simulations of greatest teams competitions I have seen and would not put the Pats on the same level as the pre-cap 70s Steelers/ 80s 49ers/ or 90s Cowboys..
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