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An important history lesson for you TRUE Steelers fans!

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Old 11-16-2007, 09:07 PM   #1
alittlejazzbird
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Default Icy Issues: Why Isn't Big Ben Considered Elite?

While I'd much prefer him to keep flying under the radar, it's obvious now that the media is finally getting a clue that we have an elite quarterback in Pittsburgh...
**************************************************

Icy Issue: How come nobody talks about Ben Roethlisberger as an elite NFL quarterback?

Icier Response: Apparently people just can?t believe it?s possible to be so good so young.

The Pittsburgh signal caller stormed onto the National Football League stage in 2004, leading the Steelers to an improbable 15-1 season in his rookie campaign. For an encore in 2005, he merely became the youngest quarterback to lead his team to a Super Bowl title. After a series of well-publicized off-the-field and health issues that led to Pittsburgh?s 8-8 campaign in 2006, Big Ben is back and better than ever here in 2007.

With a 110.2 passer rating (a figure virtually unheard of just 20 years ago), Roethlisberger is second only to New England?s Tom Brady (131.8). And, with 22 TD passes, he?s third behind only Brady (33) and Dallas media-darling QB Tony Romo (23).

You wouldn?t know it if you measured the two quarterbacks by hype and headlines, but Roethlisberger is actually more productive than Romo if we look at TDs per attempt. Romo has needed 292 pass attempts to reach his 23 TDs (1 TD every 12.7 attempts). Roethlisberger has reached 22 TDs with just 242 pass attempts (1 TD every 11.0 attempts).

Roethlisberger also has a phenomenal 92.2 career passer rating ? the same rating as Brady and just 2.0 points behind Peyton Manning, who?s widely perceived as a statistical juggernaut and has had the benefit of playing most of his games indoors. Given the same advantage, it?s reasonable to assume that Roethlisberger?s career passer rating would be well ahead of Manning?s right now.

The bottom line is that Roethlisberger is an elite quarterback by any measure but national media acclaim. And at just 25 years old, history tells us that Roethlisberger?s best years are still ahead of him.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20631957/
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Old 11-16-2007, 09:29 PM   #2
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Default Re: Icy Issues: Why Isn't Big Ben Considered Elite?

Ben had horrible playoff performances in 2004 (when more people are paying attention), had a horrible SB (when everyone is watching) after 3 excellent playoff games in 2005, and a hexed 2006. Combine that with the impression (fostered not only by the media but some of his prior coaches) that Ben was a "game manager" and it is going to take more than an excellent first half of the 2007 season to get to being perceived as worthy of elite status.

He steps up to the level right below Peyton (who is in his 10th year) and Brady (who is in his 8th year) in the eyes of the media if he plays well in Foxboro in 3 weeks (IMO that will draw Pats-Colts ratings if the Steelers are 10-2 and the Pats are 12-0) and in this year's playoffs.

Once the media pegs you it takes time to shake off initial impressions.

By way of comparison, Marino almost immediately was regarded as elite, Elway did not get there until "The Drive" in his 4th season, and even Brady did not get that rep until the Pats second SB ring in 2003.

OTOH it seems as if, as a member of football royalty, Peyton has been regarded as elite since around his junior year at Tennessee (I recall a fawning "So Good So Young" description of Peyton on the cover of SI his second year in the league).
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Old 11-16-2007, 09:46 PM   #3
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Default Re: Icy Issues: Why Isn't Big Ben Considered Elite?

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He steps up to the level right below Peyton (who is in his 10th year) and Brady (who is in his 8th year) in the eyes of the media if he plays well in Foxboro in 3 weeks (IMO that will draw Pats-Colts ratings if the Steelers are 10-2 and the Pats are 12-0) and in this year's playoffs.
Imagine if the Pats are 11-1 and we are 10-2. That would be a real ratings bonanza. The other incredible thing about Big Ben is he gets a lot of his yards on those 3rd and Longs when the defense KNOWS its pass.
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Old 11-16-2007, 09:56 PM   #4
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Default Re: Icy Issues: Why Isn't Big Ben Considered Elite?

Just wait until this year's playoffs. Assuming the Steelers make it of course. We know Ben is good, but playoff performances will tell us wether Ben truly is in Brady's class when it comes to playoff clutch. That will greatly affect his standing in the football world. I'm confident he has the mentality and skills to do it.
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Old 11-16-2007, 10:11 PM   #5
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Default Re: Icy Issues: Why Isn't Big Ben Considered Elite?

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Originally Posted by Atlanta Dan View Post

OTOH it seems as if, as a member of football royalty, Peyton has been regarded as elite since around his junior year at Tennessee (I recall a fawning "So Good So Young" description of Peyton on the cover of SI his second year in the league).
interesting point. peyton was "allowed" 27 interceptions in his 1st season and all was forgiven (timewarp to 2007 vs SD where he throws 6 int and all still is forgiven)

ben wasnt given that luxury, ever.

Quote:
The bottom line is that Roethlisberger is an elite quarterback by any measure but national media acclaim. And at just 25 years old, history tells us that Roethlisberger’s best years are still ahead of him.
the bottom line is this-

you know all the hype eli manning has received in NYC just because of his pedigree?

just imagine if they had drafted ben and went 15-1 in his 1st season.

how would the NYC media react if their 2nd year QB won them a superbowl?

and what if the "King of New York" crashed his motorcycle and almost died a few months later?

and if ARod can cash in for $270 mil, ben certainly woulda been given a mulligan for '06.

and how would the media treat the giants if they were led by the #2 rated passer in the game, #2 rusher and #1 overall defense?

ben would have the worlds undivided attention.

yet in pittsburgh there is a set of constants that can shield a qb's accomplishments on a national recognition level.

blue collar town, with blue collar players
a team built on defense
a team built on the run
the qb is never anything more than the straw that stirs the drink
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Old 11-16-2007, 10:19 PM   #6
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Default Re: Icy Issues: Why Isn't Big Ben Considered Elite?

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Originally Posted by tony hipchest View Post
blue collar town, with blue collar players
a team built on defense
a team built on the run
the qb is never anything more than the straw that stirs the drink
And if Belicheat doesn't feel obligated to run up the score by continuing to trample undermatched teams, Ben is right in the thick of MVP talks.

Roethlisberger wins an MVP and the entire league (and all the fans of those... other teams) are forced to recognize.

That's the only way he gets the respect he deserves. Even if we take down our 6th this year, it will certainly be because we had the league's leading rusher and best ranked defense.

If you told me 3 years ago that a nearly undefeated season his rookie year and a Super Bowl ring in his second didn't cut it, I would have slapped you with a trout.

EDIT: Not directed at you, Tony... you don't deserve the patented 'Zilla Trout Slap
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Old 11-16-2007, 10:54 PM   #7
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Default Re: Icy Issues: Why Isn't Big Ben Considered Elite?

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EDIT: Not directed at you, Tony... you don't deserve the patented 'Zilla Trout Slap
lol. no sweat on the edit 'zilla. i caught your verbage....

(although i must say, the chicks dig tonys "fur bearing trout slap" )

as for brady as mvp, i can make a stronger case for favre, moss, or ben. brady is no more the MVP than he was last year, the year before that, or any other year he wasnt voted as the MVP.

they run up the score to pad stats accumulated on skills that were built by cheating.

i see the same value in holding a gun to the head of a liquor store clerk for a quick and easy $200.
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Old 11-16-2007, 11:14 PM   #8
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Default Re: Icy Issues: Why Isn't Big Ben Considered Elite?

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they run up the score to pad stats accumulated on skills that were built by cheating.
I just hope the voting panel sees things the same way.

Without considering the manner in which most of those touchdowns were scored and the supporting cast, Brady is obviously the "paper" favorite.

Perhaps my perception of who is to be awarded is skewed since the last three winners, Manning, Alexander, and Tomlinson, all broke touchdown records like Brady is on course to do.

Granted, all of those players were major contributors on their high quality teams that season, which is what the award SHOULD be about.

The undoubted leader on an elite team that recovered from an 8-8 last season, got a new head coach, and were written off by a lot of the "experts," should certainly deserve TOP consideration.

Whether or not he is considered, I just hope he continues to play like he does deserve it.

EDIT: I also CERTAINLY see Favre. He's winning games with basically no support cast on offense.

I'd say Ben has the Comeback Player of the Year wrapped up regardless.
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Old 11-16-2007, 11:20 PM   #9
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Default Re: Icy Issues: Why Isn't Big Ben Considered Elite?

Quote:
Originally Posted by tony hipchest View Post
yet in pittsburgh there is a set of constants that can shield a qb's accomplishments on a national recognition level.

blue collar town, with blue collar players
a team built on defense
a team built on the run
the qb is never anything more than the straw that stirs the drink
This is why Ben will be lucky to get a nod to the Pro Bowl this year, never mind MVP consideration. Don't be surprised if Derek Anderson makes it in as the 3rd QB behind Brady and Manning, especially if the Browns get a WC berth in the playoffs.
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Old 11-16-2007, 11:30 PM   #10
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Default Re: Icy Issues: Why Isn't Big Ben Considered Elite?

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This is why Ben will be lucky to get a nod to the Pro Bowl this year, never mind MVP consideration. Don't be surprised if Derek Anderson makes it in as the 3rd QB behind Brady and Manning, especially if the Browns get a WC berth in the playoffs.
nah. brady has pissed in the face of the pro bowl by claiming injury and appearing at a celebrity golf event. he would rather spend a week rehabbing his injured shoulder by beating off to paris hilton pics at home, than to attend the pro bowl.

ben is in this year (along with manning) and anderson may get in by bradys default. ben and james harrison wrote their ticket monday night vs. the ravens, just like bob sanders wrote his against the steelers on MNF 05 and jamal williams wrote his against the steelers on MNF 06. both them guys were deserving, as is ben and james.

plus, with fan voting you gotta give the edge to steelers
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