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Old 01-17-2008, 05:05 PM   #21
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Default Re: Huckabee: Amend Constitution to be in 'God's standards'

Uh....no.

A lot of what you see in the Constitution is based off of the works of men like Hobbes and Locke. Social contract and what not. God was included because America was a very uneducated nation at the time and God and The Church were huge parts of the social structure of the time. The FF simply used the most available social vehicle to deliver their message.
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Old 01-17-2008, 05:34 PM   #22
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Default Re: Huckabee: Amend Constitution to be in 'God's standards'

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Freedom of Religion is all well and good, but we have English as our official language and other people choose to speak other languages. Plus, just because the founding fathers did something doesn't mean it can't be changed. They were just politicians and normal people like us today.

I'm not going to get into a shitting match with you, but if the majority of the US was Muslim and I was Christian (Just for example) I wouldn't feel violated at all if the country changed the way the government worked based off of their beliefs. Just like anything else, the biggest groups of people who believe in a certain thing get it done. That is how the president is elected, that is what makes things sell, that is how our American Idol is selected - That is just how it works. If you are in a minority, well too bad.

I am not necessarily saying I agree with Huckabee, but I can see how it could work.
FYI The US doesn't have an official language. The last time we mixed religion and politics we burnt people at the stake!
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Old 01-17-2008, 05:44 PM   #23
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Default Re: Huckabee: Amend Constitution to be in 'God's standards'

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Uh....no.

A lot of what you see in the Constitution is based off of the works of men like Hobbes and Locke. Social contract and what not. God was included because America was a very uneducated nation at the time and God and The Church were huge parts of the social structure of the time. The FF simply used the most available social vehicle to deliver their message.
Well, first that is what C.S. Lewis would call chronological snobbery. To call America uneducated because they did not have what WE consider a proper education is redacting 21 century social standards into that era. Furthermore, how could an eneducated nation understand a govt. based on hobbes and locke? The fact of the matter is that in the basics of Englsih, Math, etc., the average person was probably better educated in that era then now.

To suggest that God was used simply as a vehicle is to not understand our FF's beleifs in God. Whether theist or deist, they had a distinct belief that God was the creator, and within his creation of humanity, placed certain rights within the makeup of each human. The idea of God and creation was not a "vehicle" for a greater philosphy, it WAS THE PHILOSOPHY.

Hobbes and Locke were used, not in creating an understanding of the right of each human, but how to create a government based on those rights. Thus, we have a Lockian government for Hobbsian reasons.

You are confusing the American revolution with the French revolution.

American Revolution was based on the idea of God as creator, and mans rights in response not being oppressed by a government.

French Revolution was based on a social contract between the people and government, and the government's breaking of the contract.
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Old 01-17-2008, 05:44 PM   #24
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Default Re: Huckabee: Amend Constitution to be in 'God's standards'

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FYI The US doesn't have an official language. The last time we mixed religion and politics we burnt people at the stake!
Nice bumper sticker... Not historically accurate... but nice bumper sticker.
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Old 01-17-2008, 05:58 PM   #25
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Default Re: Huckabee: Amend Constitution to be in 'God's standards'

Huck rubs me the wrong way. He's definately not my first choice. That's great he's a religious man. I get it. I got it the first thousand times he made it clear to me. Guy needs to give it a rest.
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Old 01-17-2008, 07:24 PM   #26
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Default Re: Huckabee: Amend Constitution to be in 'God's standards'

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To pull the constitution out of that context, and re-read it now in a vacuum is to do the constitution and founding fathers a great disservice.

To leave the Constitution in that 320 year old vacuum is to do it, and everyone living today, 320 years later, a disservice. It has been continually remarked on that the Constitution is a living document, that it is written to be effective regardless of how the country grows and changes.

Tell me, exactly what do you think needs to be changed about or written into this document? How is it flawed in such a way that it needs to be brought into line with "God's standards", whatever those may be, depending on which god you've chosen and, if you've chosen the Christian one, which parts of the Bibile you've chosen to accept and which to ignore? In what way has the Constitution failed us as a nation? As a people? Huck himself didn't say.
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Old 01-17-2008, 11:47 PM   #27
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Default Re: Huckabee: Amend Constitution to be in 'God's standards'

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To leave the Constitution in that 320 year old vacuum is to do it, and everyone living today, 320 years later, a disservice. It has been continually remarked on that the Constitution is a living document, that it is written to be effective regardless of how the country grows and changes.

Tell me, exactly what do you think needs to be changed about or written into this document? How is it flawed in such a way that it needs to be brought into line with "God's standards", whatever those may be, depending on which god you've chosen and, if you've chosen the Christian one, which parts of the Bibile you've chosen to accept and which to ignore? In what way has the Constitution failed us as a nation? As a people? Huck himself didn't say.
Mosca,

I am going to believe that you intended this as a question, and not sniping... but I wasn't sure.

I never said that it needs to be "Brought into God's standards." Let me go back to my original post.

Quote:
OK. I am not even going to touch the quote itself. I understand what he was saying... and going for, but it was very wrongly explained.

However, Mosca...

While I understand the word God is not in the constitution... the rights which the constitution defends are understood as being given by God... per the Declaration of Independence. The Constitution was not written in a vacuum, nor should it understood in a vacuum.

However, the God as discussed in the Dec. of Ind. is SPECIFICALLY left as a God of creation... a God of Deism, not necessary Theism. Thus, the God mentioned encompasses any God which any culture beleives in, as long as that concept of God created humans and endowed them with rights which can not be taken away.
My only point here is that God isn't written IN the constitution, but an understanding of God pervades the constitution, and is the foundational concept which the FF believed gave us our rights....

That is ALL I was saying.
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Old 01-18-2008, 08:14 AM   #28
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Default Re: Huckabee: Amend Constitution to be in 'God's standards'

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Nice bumper sticker... Not historically accurate... but nice bumper sticker.
It makes a good point. I believe the Puritans were Christians were they not?
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Old 01-18-2008, 12:13 PM   #29
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Default Re: Huckabee: Amend Constitution to be in 'God's standards'

While I have enjoyed the banter back and forth I must say that I agree with what I've seen and heard from huckabee. However, if he were to look closely at the Constitution he would find that it was written on the basis of God's word. The problem isn't the constitution but the application of the guidelines.

It is my belief that the separation of church and state had everything to do with the church being separated from operation of government, not God being removed from Government buildings or in the creation of laws. If we took a closer look at our laws one would find a close correlation between the bible and the laws of this great country.

I look forward to the day that we can have a strong Christian leader as the President of this country. While I believe that W did a great job of relying on his faith I also believe that a stronger man of faith can be placed in the White House.

Instead of "God Bless America," it's time for "America Bless God!"
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Old 01-18-2008, 12:38 PM   #30
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Default Re: Huckabee: Amend Constitution to be in 'God's standards'

Preacher, my questions were indeed rhetorical. My point was a bit indirect, in that the man claimed to want to change the Constitution, but didn't say what needed to be changed. Therefore, his whole speech was pandering; using his Christianity in a base manner. I don't see any reason to convene a new Continental Congress and alter the basis for our nation... does anyone else?

Since common sense and rationality will win out and the man will not be elected, I'll now exit.
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