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Old 01-26-2008, 05:29 PM   #11
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Default Re: Romney ahead in FL

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Originally Posted by revefsreleets View Post
Old Hill knows how to win now: Just whip up a few croc tears and the voters will turn out in droves.

I still have McCain. Yeah, yeah, he's had some strange bedfellows, but I want a guy who can reach across the aisle to get things done. He is also kicking ass in the mid-moderate to moderate conservative demo. SC is about as conservative as it gets, and he polled well across all the demo's except the extreme right ditto-head vote.
Whats funny, is the Rush Limbaugh isn't extreme right.... He would accept a candidate that is somewhat weak on abortion and other social issues.

Rush is a Military/economic/judicial conservative...

And I would say not even a full economic conservative. Huckabee I think provides the best tax plan, most conservative tax plan...
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Old 01-26-2008, 06:29 PM   #12
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Default Re: Romney ahead in FL

Oh, but Rush HATES McCain almost as much as he hates Huck. He has stated that either would "destroy the Republican party".

Fact is, Rush has jumped the shark. He shook things up when he became popular, and now time has passed and he's become the status quo. Happens to everyone eventually, I guess...

McCain's tent may be just large enough

Published on Wednesday, Jan 23, 2008


WASHINGTON: The Reagan administration had its pragmatists and its so-called ideologues. It had James Baker as well as Ed Meese.

Reagan carried moderate states such as Connecticut, Wisconsin and Washington, as well as conservative ones such as Wyoming and South Carolina.

But then a great tightening occurred. Conservative institutions and interest groups proliferated in Washington. The definition of who was a true conservative narrowed. It became necessary to pass certain purity tests — on immigration, abortion, taxes and Terri Schiavo.

An oppositional mentality set in: If the liberals worried about global warming, it was necessary to regard it as a hoax. If the New York Times editorial page worried about waterboarding, then the code of conservative correctness required one to think it OK.

Apostates and deviationists were expelled or found wanting, and the boundaries of acceptable thought narrowed. Moderate Republicans were expelled for squishiness.

Millions of coastal suburbanites left the party in disgust.

And still the corset tightened. Many professional conservatives do not regard Mike Huckabee or John McCain as true conservatives.

''I'm here to tell you, if either of these two guys get the nomination, it's going to destroy the Republican Party,'' Rush Limbaugh said recently on his radio show. ''It's going to change it forever, be the end of it.''

Some of the contributors to the National Review's highly influential blog, The Corner, look to Mitt Romney to save the conservative movement. Their hatred of McCain is so strong that it has earned its own name: McCain Derangement Syndrome.

Yet a funny thing has happened this primary season. Conservative voters have not followed their conservative leaders.

Conservative voters are much more diverse than the image you'd get from conservative officialdom.

In South Carolina, 34 percent of the Republican voters called themselves ''very conservative,'' but another 34 percent called themselves only ''somewhat conservative'' and 24 percent called themselves ''moderate.''

Only 28 percent of the primary voters there said abortion should be ''always illegal.''

This, I repeat, was in South Carolina, one of the most right-wing places in the country.

While various conservative poobahs threaten to move to Idaho if Huckabee or McCain gets the nomination, the silent majority of conservative voters seems to like these candidates.

Huckabee has done well among evangelical voters while loudly deviating from conservative economic orthodoxy. John McCain leads among Republicans nationally. He has a 71 percent favorable rating and a 23 percent unfavorable rating. He has a 63 percent favorability rating among Huckabee supporters, 66 percent favorability among Romney supporters and 81 percent favorability among supporters of Rudy Giuliani. These are much higher second-choice ratings than any other candidate.

McCain's winning coalition in South Carolina was pretty broad. He lost among the extremely conservative but won among the somewhat conservative and the moderates. He lost among those who go to church more than once a week, but won among weekly churchgoers. He won among those who strongly support the Bush administration and among those who are angry at the Bush administration, among those who strongly support the war and among those who strongly oppose it. He won every income group over $30,000.

Even among people who want to deport every immigrant, McCain only lost to Huckabee by 34 percent to 26 percent.

The fact is, this has been a bad year for the conservative establishment.

Fred Thompson was supposed to embody the party line, but he has fizzled (despite being a good campaigner the past month). Rudy Giuliani proposes deep tax cuts that do not seem to excite. Mitt Romney ran as the movement candidate in Iowa and New Hampshire and grossly underperformed. Now he's running as a nonideological business pragmatist for the exurban office parks, and his campaign has possibilities.

The lesson is not that the conservative establishment is headed for the ash heap. The lesson is that the Republican Party, even in its shrunken state, is diverse. Regular Republican voters don't seem to mind independent thinking. There's room for moderates as well as orthodox conservatives.

Limbaugh, Grover Norquist and James Dobson have influence, but they are not arbiters of conservative doctrine.

In his South Carolina victory speech, McCain defined a more inclusive conservatism: ''We want government to do its job, not your job; to do it better and to do it with less of your money; to defend our nation's security wisely and effectively, because the cost of our defense is so dear to us; to respect our values because they are the true source of our strength; to enforce the rule of law that is the first defense of freedom; to keep the promises it makes to us and not make promises it will not keep.''

And McCain's success has raised an astonishing specter: Republicans may actually have a shot at winning this year.
Brooks is a New York Times columnist.


WASHINGTON: The Reagan administration had its pragmatists and its so-called ideologues. It had James Baker as well as Ed Meese.

Reagan carried moderate states such as Connecticut, Wisconsin and Washington, as well as conservative ones such as Wyoming and South Carolina.

But then a great tightening occurred. Conservative institutions and interest groups proliferated in Washington. The definition of who was a true conservative narrowed. It became necessary to pass certain purity tests — on immigration, abortion, taxes and Terri Schiavo.
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Old 01-26-2008, 06:30 PM   #13
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Default Re: Romney ahead in FL

An oppositional mentality set in: If the liberals worried about global warming, it was necessary to regard it as a hoax. If the New York Times editorial page worried about waterboarding, then the code of conservative correctness required one to think it OK.

Apostates and deviationists were expelled or found wanting, and the boundaries of acceptable thought narrowed. Moderate Republicans were expelled for squishiness.

Millions of coastal suburbanites left the party in disgust.

And still the corset tightened. Many professional conservatives do not regard Mike Huckabee or John McCain as true conservatives.

''I'm here to tell you, if either of these two guys get the nomination, it's going to destroy the Republican Party,'' Rush Limbaugh said recently on his radio show. ''It's going to change it forever, be the end of it.''

Some of the contributors to the National Review's highly influential blog, The Corner, look to Mitt Romney to save the conservative movement. Their hatred of McCain is so strong that it has earned its own name: McCain Derangement Syndrome.

Yet a funny thing has happened this primary season. Conservative voters have not followed their conservative leaders.

Conservative voters are much more diverse than the image you'd get from conservative officialdom.

In South Carolina, 34 percent of the Republican voters called themselves ''very conservative,'' but another 34 percent called themselves only ''somewhat conservative'' and 24 percent called themselves ''moderate.''

Only 28 percent of the primary voters there said abortion should be ''always illegal.''

This, I repeat, was in South Carolina, one of the most right-wing places in the country.

While various conservative poobahs threaten to move to Idaho if Huckabee or McCain gets the nomination, the silent majority of conservative voters seems to like these candidates.

Huckabee has done well among evangelical voters while loudly deviating from conservative economic orthodoxy. John McCain leads among Republicans nationally. He has a 71 percent favorable rating and a 23 percent unfavorable rating. He has a 63 percent favorability rating among Huckabee supporters, 66 percent favorability among Romney supporters and 81 percent favorability among supporters of Rudy Giuliani. These are much higher second-choice ratings than any other candidate.

McCain's winning coalition in South Carolina was pretty broad. He lost among the extremely conservative but won among the somewhat conservative and the moderates. He lost among those who go to church more than once a week, but won among weekly churchgoers. He won among those who strongly support the Bush administration and among those who are angry at the Bush administration, among those who strongly support the war and among those who strongly oppose it. He won every income group over $30,000.

Even among people who want to deport every immigrant, McCain only lost to Huckabee by 34 percent to 26 percent.

The fact is, this has been a bad year for the conservative establishment.

Fred Thompson was supposed to embody the party line, but he has fizzled (despite being a good campaigner the past month). Rudy Giuliani proposes deep tax cuts that do not seem to excite. Mitt Romney ran as the movement candidate in Iowa and New Hampshire and grossly underperformed. Now he's running as a nonideological business pragmatist for the exurban office parks, and his campaign has possibilities.

The lesson is not that the conservative establishment is headed for the ash heap. The lesson is that the Republican Party, even in its shrunken state, is diverse. Regular Republican voters don't seem to mind independent thinking. There's room for moderates as well as orthodox conservatives.

Limbaugh, Grover Norquist and James Dobson have influence, but they are not arbiters of conservative doctrine.

In his South Carolina victory speech, McCain defined a more inclusive conservatism: ''We want government to do its job, not your job; to do it better and to do it with less of your money; to defend our nation's security wisely and effectively, because the cost of our defense is so dear to us; to respect our values because they are the true source of our strength; to enforce the rule of law that is the first defense of freedom; to keep the promises it makes to us and not make promises it will not keep.''

And McCain's success has raised an astonishing specter: Republicans may actually have a shot at winning this year.
Brooks is a New York Times columnist.

http://www.ohio.com/editorial/commen...l?page=all&c=y
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Old 01-26-2008, 09:07 PM   #14
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Default Re: Romney ahead in FL

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Yet a funny thing has happened this primary season. Conservative voters have not followed their conservative leaders.
I'm not so sure, from what I understand, registered republicans in some states are voting for Romney as much as almost 2-1 over McCain. However, McCain tends to do much better among "independents" the majority of which are supposedly "non-commited" but usually vote democrat in the election.
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Old 01-27-2008, 05:59 PM   #15
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Default Re: Romney ahead in FL

We shall see, of course...
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Old 01-27-2008, 07:19 PM   #16
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We shall see, of course...
Agreed. I think McCain just getting the endorsement from Crist may be huge for him.
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Old 01-30-2008, 06:37 PM   #17
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Default Re: Romney ahead in FL

Now we know. And I'm very proud to say that the extreme right and the neocons ARE NOT the voice of my party any more. The moderate conservatives are coming out in droves, and it damn well may carry the GOP back into the White House again when there was next to no chance of that happening as recent as a year ago.
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Old 02-04-2008, 08:31 PM   #18
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Default Re: Romney ahead in FL

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Now we know. And I'm very proud to say that the extreme right and the neocons ARE NOT the voice of my party any more. The moderate conservatives are coming out in droves, and it damn well may carry the GOP back into the White House again when there was next to no chance of that happening as recent as a year ago.
I hope so Reve. I hope he isn't just the lesser of democrats. What scares me is someone fairly moderate IMO always compromising with the Dem's. You mix the two and what comes out the other end may not be what the conservatves were expecting.
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Old 02-04-2008, 09:08 PM   #19
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I hope so Reve. I hope he isn't just the lesser of democrats. What scares me is someone fairly moderate IMO always compromising with the Dem's. You mix the two and what comes out the other end may not be what the conservatves were expecting.
I welcome that. I'm not a conservative. Not quite sure why it always has to be one of the two camps. I'm a moderate. Let me break it down:

-Abortion? Should be legal, but rare.
-Gay Marriage? Who cares? Let em get married.
-Drugs? Legalize them all now. As soon as you remove the stigma and mystique, nobody cares. And the gov't can charge a shitload of tax on legalized drugs. Drug use will drop, and revenues will rise.
-Ilegal immigrants? They are here. It would cost 10X what the Iraq War will cost to try and get rid of them. Seriously, does anyone think that the US government could cost effectively evict 12 million people from it's borders? Silly.
Health Care? Compromise.

See? Conservatism is common sense, and liberalism is a fantasy. But somewhere in between there is a workable solution.
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Old 02-07-2008, 11:42 AM   #20
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Default Re: Romney ahead in FL

Romney is out: http://youdecide08.foxnews.com/2008/...to-quit-today/
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