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Old 03-24-2008, 09:54 PM   #21
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Default Re: Tomlin values Pass Rush without blitzing

hampton is a fat ass and a nt.. did u expect him to run a 4.4???
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Old 03-25-2008, 05:49 AM   #22
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Default Re: Tomlin values Pass Rush without blitzing

I would love to see us get pressure on the quarterback without blitzing that would let our linebackers play coverage.
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Old 03-25-2008, 06:29 AM   #23
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Default Re: Tomlin values Pass Rush without blitzing

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Originally Posted by tony hipchest View Post
in other news....

tomlin values interceptions without db's gambling.
...and rushes without fumbles.
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Old 03-25-2008, 08:30 AM   #24
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Default Re: Tomlin values Pass Rush without blitzing

I think Woodley is the solution. We can continue to play the 3-4 and still have an extra player who can put his hand on the ground and get to the QB when necessary. However for all the pressure to work we need two Corners that we can leave on an island and a decent FS that can help out while Troy does his buisness in the box.

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Old 03-25-2008, 08:37 AM   #25
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Default Re: Tomlin values Pass Rush without blitzing

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I think the scheme is zone blitz that causes the 10 yards off the ball, it drives me just as nuts and I'd love to see some "shut down" guys, but really more than that, how about just trying bump and run coverage, playing down tight, and not allowing the WR to get that quick slant, yes it opens you up to the deep ball if the rush doesn't get there, but you live and die by it. However, Tomlin is a cover 2 guy and that doesn't really mean "shut down" corners as much as it does, "help over the top" and I'm not sure I want that type of bend dont break defense.

I'd rather balls to the wall attack and if they beat you deep, they beat you deep, so be it. But that's just my style.
The problem with the Tampa 2 is that it's built on speedy receivers moving forward (i.e. coming up to attack the ball). If the LBs aren't good at coverage, it leaves a cushion at about 10-15 yards down field which the DBs then have to cover and be able to open field tackle (something we've had problems with before. It also opens up the over top for the speedy WRs which, as you stated, opens up the long ball. However, the reason it becomes successful is that the front 4 are strong, athletic, and speedy and can get to the QB without utilizing the blitz package every time.

I don't mind the balls to the wall attack - I like that style of defense more frequent than not. But I also like the idea of just not always doing what people find you predicated to do.
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Old 03-25-2008, 09:37 AM   #26
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Default Re: Tomlin values Pass Rush without blitzing

Good point, if they know you're always attacking the offense can adjust. But I like the way Dick L calls our Defense, so for me it works. The Tampa 2 is kind of boring to me, and although the Steel Curtain of the 70s had a 4 man front...those were HOF players lead by one of the best D-linemen to ever play the game. I doubt we'll be drafting Mean Joe Greene this year, so sticking with a style we already have on roster and keeping our in your face, you can't run on us defense is the way I'd prefer it.
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Old 03-25-2008, 09:39 AM   #27
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Default Re: Tomlin values Pass Rush without blitzing

The 2-deep or Tampa-2 defense is based upon having 2 deep safety coverage which takes away the long ball and keeps everything in front of the DB's. Thats why when scouts say "he's more of a cover 2 corner" because a guy runs a 4.5 or slower.

Slower CB's playing zone coverage where they always have help over the the top from a safety on the deep ball and rarely leaving a CB on an island with a WR. Smaller, faster LB's in coverage who can run down plays and a big pass rush from your DE's and 2 big DT's plugging up the middle.

Its a bend but down break defensive style that I really dont like either, but getting a pass rush from the front 4 without blitzing is a great thing. I hope the steelers dont go tampa 2, but please get somebody that can collapse the pocket!!!!
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Old 03-25-2008, 09:43 AM   #28
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Default Re: Tomlin values Pass Rush without blitzing

but again, if all you focus on is collapsing the pocket, the other team can run the ball. How many of us were shaking our heads when the Patriots O-coordinator Refused to run the ball in the SB. Seriously, had he gone to the double tightend set that he used against the Chargers and the Jags somewhat and just ran at the giants, the d-line wouldn't have been able to go balls to the wall to the QB.

Instead, and this is according to a lot of Pats Forum posts I've read, the guy let his ego get to him and refused to adjust at half time. There are reports that Brady asked to adjust and his response was, "we aren't changing a thing"

Bad idea. Giants never felt threatened by the run, and everyone knows, the way to attack a pass rush, is to run right at it.
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Old 03-25-2008, 10:13 AM   #29
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Default Re: Tomlin values Pass Rush without blitzing

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Originally Posted by El-Gonzo Jackson View Post
I would like to see a DE in the 3-4 with some pass rush ability replace Keisel. With Woodley on the other side it effectively becomes a 4-3 if you just rush 4 and gives the fliexibility that a 3-4 normally does.
Problem is that type of player is rare. Right off the top of my head, I'm thinking maybe a guy like Reggie White could have played 3-4 DE, still handle double teams and still provide a great pass rush.

If you recall in 2005, Keisel was the guy that came in on 3rd down to spell Kimo and did a very good job pass rushing. Now Keisel plays every down, and IMO doesn't have the juice left in the tank (and also a little heavier) to provide the same type of pass rush. The team absolutely needs someone to come in and help out Keisel, and the pass rush, like Keisel did prior to becoming the starter.

The other problem I see with our pass rush is Hampton. Hampton has not been commanding double teams like he used to, and that is a huge problem. In our scheme the NT has to take up at least two O-linemen. When he doesn't that puts a huge strain on the rest of the front 7, not allowing others to come free. Hampton doesn't need to get to the QB to do his job, he needs to occupy blockers.

IMO, we need some big bodied youth behind Hampton and the DEs that can play in our scheme and still provide a little more giddyup for the pass rush in obvious passing situations.
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Old 03-25-2008, 10:50 AM   #30
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Default Re: Tomlin values Pass Rush without blitzing

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but again, if all you focus on is collapsing the pocket, the other team can run the ball. .
A guy like Kimo VonOlhoffen was relentless at getting upfield, had a devastating club move and rip move. He was also a great run defender. Chris Canty was drafted on day 2 and we could have drafted him then.

I'm not saying a sack machine is needed at the DE position, but a guy that gets upfield and disrupts the pocket so the QB needs to reset his feet is golden in the 3-4. When the QB is uneasy, gets happy feet and stops looking downfield is when those OLB's get the sacks caused by the pocket collapsing.

Keisel just runs into the O-line and is absorbed by the blocker.
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