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Old 04-27-2008, 07:19 AM   #1
Hypocycloid
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Default Relax impatient proponents of linemen, we haven't even started rnd 3 yet!

First off let me state that I was a big proponent of going offensive line in round one. If you doubt me, read my treatise on "Why the Steelers 'May' take an offensive lineman". It is no doubt a strong need and so is D-Line as proven when Aaron Smith went down last year; but please quit freaking out. We made the right choices yesterday. Let me back up my argument before I get shellacked!

Again, most teams are going to a two back system--that's why featured backs are taken so high in fantasy. We have actually had it before (Harris/Blier). Some people say that the O-Line wasn't that bad last year since Willie was leading the league in rushing until the injury but look at how many touchdowns Willie had? Not exactly a good argument for short yardage and goal line success is it? Plus, Mendenhall is fast too--he can get you on the outside, the inside, receiving, and some say that he is a decent blocker. The Steelers turn people into blockers. RB was a need, not as glaring as OLine or DLine, but a need nonetheless. The Steelers never envisioned such a value at #23. I think they expected someone with a high grade such as a DE, OT, or CB to slip to them, just not such a high value/low mileage running back.

Limas Sweet Sweed: If you haven't watched his Youtube highlights, you are missing something. Watch how he can go up and get the ball, runs away convincingly from secondaries, and how soft his hands are. He is an athlete and not as awkward and clumsy as Plaxico was. I liked Plax by the way. WR was a need as well. Would you take Wilson over Sweed? Now we can throw a fade route in the endzone to someone taller than 6 foot 1 (Washington). Why did we keep trying that anyway? He can also go up across the middle and pull one down while Hines dials in his defender and knocks the stuffing out of him (I fondly rememnisce my first home game last year when he knocked out two Ravens) while he runs all the way to the endzone.

We ended up with arguably the best running back in the draft by some and no worse than the 3rd best in an incredible draft at that position. We ended up with arguably the best WR in the draft and certainly no worse than 5th best.

As Mike Tomlin and I pointed out in another thread (can't believe I mentioned myself in the same sentence--how pretentious is that), there is another way to protect the quarterback and that is to have enough weapons that your opponents can't bring the house without paying. That is what always frustrates me when we play the Patriots. We bring the house and the Pretty Boy just dumps it off and converts 3rd and long or 4th and long. The Patriots always do that to us every time, plus they had taped our defensive signals as well. I would like to do it to them this year (not steal signals...and get caught). They did it to everyone last year, until the Super Bowl and they almost pulled it off in the end.

What weaponry we now have. Tall receiver; speedy receiver 1; tough as woodpecker lips receiver; speedy receiver #2 with questionable hands but hey no one is perfect; Heath Miller the human vacuum cleaner; Mr. I only catch touchdown passes Matt Spaeth; FWP...nuff said; and Jack-of-All-Trades I'll beat you through the air, on the ground and all-around, knock you on your ass Mendenhall. Its gonna be hard to defend against all that. i think the skill position improvement has helped the O-Line. But don't get me wrong, I certainly don't think it is fixed either.

Lets look at the line positions in the draft. I hear so much whining about us not taking a lineman, but most of the whiners are not saying who we should have picked. First the O-Line. At 23, Long, Clady, Williams, Albert, Cherilus, Otah, and Baker (Sam freaking Baker whose stock has fallen like a Led Zepplin). Who the hell should we have picked. Here is who went after us and before our second pick: Duane Brown #26 (2nd round reach....and they aren't happy in Houston with this pick) and Chilo Rachel #39 (project by many to go to us in the 2nd Round...huge reach). That is it! Not even a Tackle taken in the second round!

The only other offensive lineman to go in the second was Pollak who was projected to go where he went anyway...late 2nd round.

Ask yourself if you would rather have possibly the best running back in the draft (top three) in the first round or the 8 to 10th best OT that isn't rate more than a hair better than 3rd, 4th, and 5th round prospects! In the second round at top tree wide receiver (graded as top 25 overall in a deep class and would have been higher barring an injury) versus a 3rd, 4th, or 5th round graded reach! You must be nuts and a glass is half empty kinda person to believe they should have gone the other way.

They should've traded up argument? Well they were probably looking at the board and thinking Cherilus or Otah would slide as well as Albert, but some teams made some moves right in front of the Steelers and some paid a hefty price for their moves. The Steelers didn't want to trade any draft pricks, they have other needs and those of you clamoring for them to take a O-Lineman would be whining that they didn't address their other needs because they gave up a pick or two...You know who you are!

Besides. Hartwig was a beast then had some injury prone seasons and then Ryan Kalil stepped in his absence. They cut Harwig for his Cap Hit. We should be familiar with that....Faneca anyone? Don't think Harwig is going to be another Mahan. Besides, many say that Mahan was playing out of position last year. I am not saying the OLine is fixed. Many questions....Smith's Back, Starks, Colon and his short arms at RT, Komoeatu a big question mark. Simmons not great and starting to get up there.

Oline is definately a need:
Max Starks, Willie Colon, Marvel Smith, Jason Capizzi, Jerremy Parquet, Trai Essex, Chris Komoeatu are Free Agents next year. Sure Capizzi and Parquet might not matter much other than the fact that they either need to prove themselves or get replaced. The last part is the part that matters, replaced. I am not sure about Stapleton's contract either. Point is that the line wasn't good last year, after this year. Sure the backup's could come cheap, but the Steelers will need to #%#% or get off the pot with them. The others need to improve. Maybe Hartwig will make the rest of the line look better maybe not. Remember though that Mahan was getting pushed off the ball and the rest of the line was trying to adjust to help him out.

Perhaps the Steelers know something that we don't. Imagine that. Maybe they think some of those guys riding the pine may develop. I have always thought highly of Capizzi. As Tomlin said. "Everybody thinks that people who come through this league are first-round draft picks. Really, they're in the minority." http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pitt...rce=rss&feed=9
Can you say Russel, Parker, Harrison, Ryan Clark--UDFA's. Not saying we can fix the problem with UDFA's but we have a year to groom and another draft (likely deeper in OLinemen) to address the need next year when most of this year's players contract's are up.

I think the argument for a DLine pick is more relevant. Who was available and picked between the Steelers' 23rd pick? Lawrence Jackson #28 (sixth rated DE for late 1st to 2nd round, a definate reach pick, and more suited to the 4-3, he also was ranked below Groves btw), Kentwan Balmer (a Steeler type guy rated third best DT and a late 1st early 2nd projection....he would have looked great in B&G), Phillip Merling #32 (a top 20 pick, would have also worn the B&G well but a little on the small side for 3-4 line), Trevor Laws (a reach for a 2nd rounder), Calais Campbell #50 (formerly projected as a #1, but was projected as 3rd or 4th round...would have been a huge reach at #23), and we all know we got scooped at 52 with Quentin Groves (carried a late first round grade and would have made a decent pick at #23 but with some ?'s about health, would have also been a fantastic steal at #53).

While many of these guys would have made good picks at #23 several would not have. The good picks would have been correct value except for perhaps Merling who would have been a slight steal. Mendenhall though is a Major Steal and I don't think the others compare for value or immediate value or impact.

As for a second round pick, Only Jason Jones #54 has come off the board in the second since we picked. He was projected as a third round pick and would have been a reach. Sweed had a top 25 grade.....no comparison. Another Steal.

I think the Steelers should consider changing their name to Stealers!

Don't panick yet. It is only the end of the 2nd round! Plenty of talent left, even some with first round grades. I read somewhere that most guards or pro-bowl guards are ttaken after the 2nd round. This is a deep draft in tackles and perhaps the Steelers will take one and move them to guard or center eventually...or just develop one. I believe Hartings and Dawson were not centers but were moved there. Tackles in college tend to be the best athletes on the O-Line and can make the transition.

To be continued in next post....
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Old 04-27-2008, 07:24 AM   #2
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Default Re: Relax impatient proponents of linemen, we haven't even started rnd 3 yet!

.....Continued:
So who is left for those of you who need to take some blood pressure medicine? Lets take a look after we realize that we also have a need for depth at LB and Corner (a nice corner could allow Townsend to move to safety and extend his career) as well as OL and DL.. I didn't include any of the positions of need (that we no longer have due to our picks) but players like Mario Manningham, Jamaal Charles, and Kevin Smith also have to come off the board from other teams. There are others listed below with first round grades or high grades (receivers) where teams went OL or RB and are probably not going to go OL Many teams ahead of us will make those pics and there should be great value left when the Steelers pick in the third.

Remember, if the Steelers don't get that OL or DL you covet, they will have at least 8 picks next year due to the lloss of Faneca thanks to compensatory picks. The pick will likely be a third rounder. They could use their other 3rd rounder next year to move up from the 32nd spot to take that lineman with the 23rd overall pick!

Player Projected Round

OT:
Carl Nicks Nebraska 2
Anthony Collins Kansas 2-3
John Greco Toledo 3
Tony Hills Texas 3-4
Oniel Cousins UTEP 3-4
Kirk Barton Ohio State 3-4
Barry Richardson Clemson 4
Jeremy Zuttah* Rutgers 4-5
Brandon Keith Northern Iowa 5 (350 lbs/ 4.98)
Bobby Byrd Washington State 5
Carleton Medder Florida 5
Shannon Boatman FL State 5-6
Pedro Sosa Rutgers 6
Franklin Dunbar Mid TN St 6-7
Brian Stamper Vanderbuilt 6-7
Tyler Luellen Missouri 6-FA


OG:

Roy Schuening Oregon State 2-3
Drew Radovich USC 3
Mike McGlynn* Pitt 3-4
Eric Young TN 3-4
Donald Thomas UConn 4-5
Chad Rinehart Northern Iowa 4-5
Fobert Felton Arkansas 5
Adam Kraus MI 5-6
Kirk Elder Texas A&M 6
Mike Fladell Rutgers 6
Andrew Crummey Maryland 6
Shawn Tevaga UCLA 6
Jordan Grimes Purdue 6
Will Arnold LSU 6
Chris McDuffle Clemson 6-7
Brandon Rodd AZ State 6-7
Andrew Bain, Miami 6-7

C:
Steve Justice Wake Forest 3-4
John Sullivan Notre Dame 4
Doug Legursky* Marshall 4-5
Cody Wallace* Texas A&M 4-5
Jamey Richard Buffalo 5
Drew Miller Florida 5-6
Kory Lichtensteiger Bowling Green 5-6
Fernanto Velasco Georgia 6
Robbie Powell Perdue 6
Matt Spanos USC 6
Robbie Krutilla W. Mich 6-7
Brennan Carvalho Portland State 6-7
Adam Spieker Mizzu 6-7

DT:
Pat Sims Auburn 1-2
Dre Moore * Maryland 1-2
Red Bryant * Texas A&M 2-3
Marcus Harrison Arkansas 2-3
Ahtyba Rubin Iowa State 2-3
DeMario Pressley NC State 3
Frank Morton Tulane 4-5
Nick Hayden Wi 4-5
Kendall Langford * Hampton 4-5
Frank Okan Texas 4-5
Letroy Gulon FL State 5
Carlton Powell* Va Tech 5
Andre Fluellen FL State 6
Barry Booker Va Tech 6
Lionel Dodson Arizona 6
Keilen Dykes * WV 6
Maurice Murray New Mexico St 6
George Chukwu Rice 6-7
James McClinton Kansas 6-7

DE:
Cliff Avril * Purdue 2
Chris Ellis VA Tech 3
Brian Johnson Gardner Webb 3-4
Chris Harrington Texas A&M 4
Rudolph Hardie Howard 5
Kenny Iwebema Iowa 5-6
Darrell Robertson GA Tech 5-6
Trevor Scott Buffalo 5-6
Adamm Oliver Ga Tech 6
Johnny Dingle WV 6
Wallace Gilberry Alabama 6
Chase Ortiz TCU 6
Tommy Blake TCU 6-7
Louis Holmes Arizona 6-7
Eric Foster* Rutgers 6-7
Jeremy Thompson Wake Forest 6-7

CB:
Charles Godfrey* Iowa 2
Justing King* Penn State 2
Patrick Lee* Auburn 2-3
Reggie Smith OK 2-3
Terrenc Wheatley Colorado 3
Antwaun Molden* Eastern Kentucky 3
Zack Bowman Nebraska 3-4
Tyvon Branch UConn 3-4
Orlando Scandrick* Boise State 4-5
Jack Williams Kent State 4
Chevis Jackson LSU 4-5
Trae Williams South FL 4-5
Dwight Lowery San Jose St 4-5
Jonathan Wilhite Auburn 4-5
Jonathan Zenon LSU 5
Marcus Walker OK 5
DeJuan Tribble BC 5
Michael Grant AK 5-6
Justin Tryon AZ St 5-6
Jack Ikegwuonu Wisconsin 5-FA
Darnell Terrell Mizzu 6
Al Phillips Wagner 6
Wilrey Fontenot AZ 6
Isaiah Garner MD 6
Roland Minor VA Tech 6
Martel Van Zant OK State 6
Nile Legania Wayne State 6
Stanley Franks Idaho 6
Lionell Singleton FL Int 6
Scorpio Babers Sam Houston St 6
Ambrose Wooden Notre Dame 6-7
Brian Witherspoon Stillman 6-7

OLB:
Xavier Adibi VA Tech 2
Erin Henderson Maryland 2
Marcus Howard* GA 2
Tavares Gooden Miami 2-3
Ezra Butler Nevada 3
Shawn Crable MI 3
Wesley Woodyard KY 3-4
Ali Highsmith LSU 4
Stanford Keglar Purdue 4-5
Bruce Davis UCLA 4-5
Jordon Dixon CO 5
Gary Guyton* GA Tech 5-6
Bryan Kehl BYU 5-6
Geno Hayes FL State 6
Thomas Williams USC 6
Andy Studebaker Wheaton 6
Chris Graham MI 6
David Bobora ID 6-7
Bryan Smith* McNeese St 6-7
Curtis Gatewood Vanderbuilt 6-7
Titus Brown Mississippi St 6-7

ILB

Dan Connor Penn State 1 ranked #1or2
Johnathan Goff Vanderbuilt 2-3
Philip Wheeler* Ge Tech 2-3
Beau Bell UNLV 2-3
Jameel McClain Syracuse 4-5
Ben Moffitt S. FL 4-5
Jeremy Leman Illinois 5-6
Spencer Lawson AZ 5-6
Corey McKeon Nebraska 6
Roderick Johnson OK State 6
Joe Brockington Notre Dame 6
Steve Allen W. TX A&M 6-7
Ahijah Lane Fresno State 6-7


Projections are from Walterfootball.com.
* indicates players whome the Steelers have shown interest in and/or visited with according to SteelersFever
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Old 04-27-2008, 07:24 AM   #3
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Default Re: Relax impatient proponents of linemen, we haven't even started rnd 3 yet!

See not a problem, plenty of great players available with upside and a few potential steals to address needs. No need to panic! We're having a great draft! No Worries!
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Old 04-27-2008, 07:32 AM   #4
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Default Re: Relax impatient proponents of linemen, we haven't even started rnd 3 yet!

I'm sorry, but I don't care if Williams or Cherilus were on the board they would have and SHOULD have drafted Mendenhall. And I'm glad they did....

And I doubt we will draft any more than one (1) offensive linemen today. So for those of you who expect the F.O. to load up on OL-men today, I strongly urge you to get a jump start with your beers Cheers.......
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Old 04-27-2008, 07:56 AM   #5
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Default Re: Relax impatient proponents of linemen, we haven't even started rnd 3 yet!

Man, alot of writting on this thread so far. I look for the Steelers to address Dline first on sunday morning myself. But if OT Anthony Collins from Kansas is still there they should grab him up, but also I think that DE Kendall Langford would be a great pick.
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Old 04-27-2008, 08:13 AM   #6
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Default Re: Relax impatient proponents of linemen, we haven't even started rnd 3 yet!

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Originally Posted by SteelFist View Post
I'm sorry, but I don't care if Williams or Cherilus were on the board they would have and SHOULD have drafted Mendenhall. And I'm glad they did....

And I doubt we will draft any more than one (1) offensive linemen today. So for those of you who expect the F.O. to load up on OL-men today, I strongly urge you to get a jump start with your beers Cheers.......
Actually that is my sentiment as well. Cherilus and Williams were not as good a pick as Mendanhall straight up. I didn't mean it to sound that way, it is just that they were off the board so it was really a no issue since the Steelers weren't going to trade a pick or two to move up.

I don't think they are going to load up on lineman either. I think they are going to go DL, OL, CB, and LB. but that is just a guess, but who knows where the value is and who they want as UDRFA's.
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Old 04-27-2008, 08:19 AM   #7
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Default Re: Relax impatient proponents of linemen, we haven't even started rnd 3 yet!

Excellent piece of writing Hypocycloid!

I think the title of the thread sums it up best of all. I posted the same last night. We have 4 rounds left today and I believe Colbert/Tomlin will most definitely address some of the needs we've been discussing for the last couple of months.

Have patience fellow Steelers fans!
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Old 04-27-2008, 08:23 AM   #8
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Default Re: Relax impatient proponents of linemen, we haven't even started rnd 3 yet!

Thanks Hometown Girl
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Old 04-27-2008, 08:26 AM   #9
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Default Re: Relax impatient proponents of linemen, we haven't even started rnd 3 yet!

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Originally Posted by HometownGal View Post
Excellent piece of writing Hypocycloid!

I think the title of the thread sums it up best of all. I posted the same last night. We have 4 rounds left today and I believe Colbert/Tomlin will most definitely address some of the needs we've been discussing for the last couple of months.

Have patience fellow Steelers fans!
yes, but will we still have patience when yet again ben is running for his life or catching kitna for most sacks
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Old 04-27-2008, 08:36 AM   #10
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Default Re: Relax impatient proponents of linemen, we haven't even started rnd 3 yet!

Great post Hypo. I agree with you we can get some good quality players on day two. Hopefully we can get Bryant, Moore, Schuening, Greco or Collins in the third and Langford, McGlynn or Barton in the fourth.
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