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Old 05-20-2008, 04:04 PM   #11
fansince'76
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Default Re: It's Unanimous

Greed is going to ruin the NFL just like it did MLB. It's inevitable. I just hope the Steelers can win one more SB before they become the Pirates of the NFL.
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Old 05-20-2008, 04:06 PM   #12
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Default Re: It's Unanimous

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Originally Posted by RoethlisBURGHer View Post
1. The unanimous stance on it is a barganing chip. It makes it look like all the owners are standing together. We all know however, that they are not totally together.

Guys like Jerry Jones and Daniel Snyder don't want a salary cap. However owners like Dan Rooney, Ralph Wilson, Randy Lerner, and other smaller market owners do want a salary cap.

2. A big thing that's gonna be brought up is rookie salaries. Rookies are making an ungodly amount of money and they haven't even proven that they can play in the league. I think this is part of the reason the owners opted out, they want a cap on rookie salaries.

3. The players do get a large peice of the pie...they are the ones that put their health on the line so people will watch the product. They deserve the money they get. That won't change...but it'll help the owners problems of the above rookie salaries are put in check.

I doubt we'll see an uncapped year or a owners lockout. The owners cant let it get that far...if it gets to a lockout they are likley to lose fans, and therefore lose lots of money.
very good points

rookie salaries are out of control, and I'm glad that may be fixed. but if this goes as far as a lockout I'd be very disappointed in the league. no one wants to see the cowbous buy a super bowl either

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Greed is going to ruin the NFL just like it did MLB. It's inevitable. I just hope the Steelers can win one more SB before they become the Pirates of the NFL.
hopefully. I just couldn't watch the nfl if it became like the mlb
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Old 05-20-2008, 04:10 PM   #13
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Default Re: It's Unanimous

yeah matt ryan just signed a 6 yr deal worth 72 mill and a 34.75 mi guareented
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Old 05-20-2008, 05:07 PM   #14
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Default Re: It's Unanimous

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Greed is going to ruin the NFL just like it did MLB. It's inevitable. I just hope the Steelers can win one more SB before they become the Pirates of the NFL.
Why is the baseball analogy such a go-to argument in any conversation about the salary cap? It simply doesn't work that way.

Do I have to keep posting all the statistics showing how mid-payroll teams are still the ones who make it to (and win) the World Series most often? Baseball didn't get "ruined" by money; it's just easy to have a selective memory that makes us think that's what happened. In any given year, something like 7 of the top 10 teams in payroll don't even make the MLB playoffs. When's the last time the Yankees won anything?

The end of the salary cap wouldn't be the end of the world, and the Steelers would not be like the Pirates. I think that if anything, baseball should prove that. Teams like the A's and Diamondbacks show that if you're smart, you'll be in the hunt whether you have a ton of money or not. Teams like the Mets and Dodgers show you that you can have a lot of money and be stupid, and still miss the playoffs.

Teams like the Pirates and Royals fail year after year because they not only don't have money, they're also incompetent. The Steelers wouldn't run into that problem. I am not concerned.
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Old 05-20-2008, 05:27 PM   #15
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The Steelers wouldn't run into that problem.
They already did as far as the money (or lack thereof) was concerned - it was called the '90s. Yes, we cobbled some very good teams together at the time, but we came up short year after year after year primarily because we simply could not afford a top-flight QB, and on top of that, we lost our best players year in and year out through the revolving door that was on the clubhouse at the time before Heinz Field was built. I don't care to relive the early years of unfettered free agency when we were good but never good enough, and more than that, never able to be good enough because of a lack of cash. And it would be that much worse in a completely uncapped league. The Rooneys would simply not be able to compete with the Joneses, Snyders and Krafts of the league. Multimillionaire owners vs. Multibillionaire owners - not much of a contest in picking the winners out of that matchup.

Speaking of the good ol' days, here is an excerpt of an article from February 18, 1997 - mainly for the younger folks here who may think my earlier "revolving door" reference to the clubhouse was an exaggeration:

Quote:
Bettis, the league's No. 3 rusher last season with 1,431 yards, is the first starter to re-sign with the Steelers in the five years of free agency. Until yesterday, they had lost 20 of 22 free agents, re-signing only the backups Fred McAfee and Jerry Olsavsky.
Steelers Finally Resign One of Their Own

An uncapped NFL? With sharks like Snyder and Jones involved? Thanks, but no thanks.

Last edited by fansince'76; 05-20-2008 at 06:07 PM.
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Old 05-20-2008, 06:13 PM   #16
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Default Re: It's Unanimous

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They already did as far as the money (or lack thereof) was concerned - it was called the '90s. Yes, we cobbled some very good teams together at the time, but we came up short year after year after year primarily because we simply could not afford a top-flight QB, and on top of that, we lost our best players year in and year out through the revolving door that was on the clubhouse at the time before Heinz Field was built.
Sure, that was a problem, but guess what? It still is.

We still cobble together very good teams but come up short year after year, and we still lose our best players to free agency. The only difference is that we're not losing our players to some greedy owner we can shake our fists at -- the salary cap just strips us of our free agents by rule, and we lose them to some team who's dumb enough to overpay. I don't see any fundamental change in the outcome, just the method by which it happens.

As far as overall success -- in the regular season or the playoffs -- we're not doing much better after the cap than we were before. Only difference is that we won the Super Bowl when we went to it and lost it in the '90s.
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Old 05-20-2008, 06:14 PM   #17
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Default Re: It's Unanimous

The prosperous days of the NFL may be coming to an end.

The Steelers better win now while they can. Before we start seeing the same old teams buy their ways to multiple championships in the 2010's.
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Old 05-20-2008, 06:19 PM   #18
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Sure, that was a problem, but guess what? It still is.

We still cobble together very good teams but come up short year after year, and we still lose our best players to free agency. The only difference is that we're not losing our players to some greedy owner we can shake our fists at -- the salary cap just strips us of our free agents by rule, and we lose them to some team who's dumb enough to overpay. I don't see any fundamental change in the outcome, just the method by which it happens.

As far as overall success -- in the regular season or the playoffs -- we're not doing much better after the cap than we were before. Only difference is that we won the Super Bowl when we went to it and lost it in the '90s.
If we had Ben during our Blitzburgh D days of '93 - '95, we'd have at least 2 more Lombardis in the case. I think that's the primary difference. We went 15-1 and 11-5 in '04 and '05 with, at least IMO, defenses that weren't nearly as strong as the one we had in '94 and '95, but for a change, we had a legit QB. I don't think we lose our best players to FA anymore - not at that rate - 20 out of 22 over a 5-year span? If we were still operating like we were (which at the time was out of financial necessity) in '96, Troy would already be gone and Ben would have one foot out the door already.
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Old 05-20-2008, 08:20 PM   #19
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If we had Ben during our Blitzburgh D days of '93 - '95, we'd have at least 2 more Lombardis in the case. I think that's the primary difference. We went 15-1 and 11-5 in '04 and '05 with, at least IMO, defenses that weren't nearly as strong as the one we had in '94 and '95, but for a change, we had a legit QB. I don't think we lose our best players to FA anymore - not at that rate - 20 out of 22 over a 5-year span? If we were still operating like we were (which at the time was out of financial necessity) in '96, Troy would already be gone and Ben would have one foot out the door already.
I definitely agree with you that our defenses were better in the '90s than they are today. And Ben makes a huge difference. But we didn't get Ben because of the salary cap -- star quarterbacks are just rare enough that it really can take 15 years to find one. I also don't think we'd have let him get away if there was no salary cap. There's a limit to what even Jerry Jones or Dan Snyder would offer one player.

Bottom line, before the salary cap, we let a lot of players go, but we did manage to keep enough key guys when we needed them to stay competitive. And we still lose key guys to the cap even today. Look at some of the starters we've lost over the past 2-3 years just because we can't afford them:

- Porter
- Von Olhoeffen
- Haggans
- Hope
- Tuman
- Faneca
- Burress
- Bell (sort of)
- Randle El

If you ask me, it's every bit as bad now as it was then, just for different reasons.

I don't think the salary cap has done anything to stop the drain of talent from top-tier teams. It seems like the effect has been mostly to penalize stupid teams like the 49ers, Raiders, Jets and Lions extra hard when they blow a ton of money on mediocre free agents.
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Old 05-20-2008, 08:27 PM   #20
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I definitely agree with you that our defenses were better in the '90s than they are today. And Ben makes a huge difference. But we didn't get Ben because of the salary cap -- star quarterbacks are just rare enough that it really can take 15 years to find one. I also don't think we'd have let him get away if there was no salary cap. There's a limit to what even Jerry Jones or Dan Snyder would offer one player.

Bottom line, before the salary cap, we let a lot of players go, but we did manage to keep enough key guys when we needed them to stay competitive. And we still lose key guys to the cap even today. Look at some of the starters we've lost over the past 2-3 years just because we can't afford them:

- Porter
- Von Olhoeffen
- Haggans
- Hope
- Tuman
- Faneca
- Burress
- Bell (sort of)
- Randle El

If you ask me, it's every bit as bad now as it was then, just for different reasons.

I don't think the salary cap has done anything to stop the drain of talent from top-tier teams. It seems like the effect has been mostly to penalize stupid teams like the 49ers, Raiders, Jets and Lions extra hard when they blow a ton of money on mediocre free agents.
Good point about the 49ers - they played fast and loose with the cap in the early years of unfettered free agency themselves and paid dearly for it. If worse comes to worse, I really do hope the Rooneys can stay competitive. However, like you pointed out, the Rooneys KNOW what they're doing when it comes to running a team - Jones and Snyder are meddling fools who spend money like drunken sailors. Thanks - I feel better now.
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