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Old 06-21-2008, 04:51 PM   #21
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Default Re: Guantanamo Bay = Jihad University?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeremy View Post
2. Do not make needless, incessant usage of:

-Emoticons.
-Line breaks or ALL-CAPS.
-Nested quotes.
-Giant fonts.
-Bad language. Mild cursing is tolerated in moderation, but be careful of your tone, especially against fellow posters.

Anyway.....a third party (or a fouth fitth or sixth) is an awesome idea.

Here are a couple you might want to check out if you're really serious about getting behind a third party:

The US Centist Party

The Moderate Party

I've been following the Moderate Party and I've been hoping they would catch on. But no luck so far.


-If you're not a Moderator, don't feel compelled to act like one . . . Do not copy-paste quote sections of the rules at people

You know how annoying it is to have rules copy and pasted at you?




Also check out the constitution party...

Last edited by Preacher; 06-21-2008 at 05:41 PM.
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Old 06-21-2008, 06:44 PM   #22
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Default Re: Guantanamo Bay = Jihad University?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeremy View Post
2. Do not make needless, incessant usage of:

-Emoticons.
-Line breaks or ALL-CAPS.
-Nested quotes.
-Giant fonts.
-Bad language. Mild cursing is tolerated in moderation, but be careful of your tone, especially against fellow posters.

Anyway.....a third party (or a fouth fitth or sixth) is an awesome idea.

Here are a couple you might want to check out if you're really serious about getting behind a third party:

The US Centist Party

The Moderate Party

I've been following the Moderate Party and I've been hoping they would catch on. But no luck so far.
Does this size suit you? I read the rules when I joined. I didn't feel that the size 3 font was GIANT by my reasoning. I would like to see the standard font at 3. I personally like it better. You are the only one to mention it so far. If I get a complaint from someone else who isn't upset with a comment I made and is just nit picking, then I'll stop.

As for your recomendation of the centrist party, well it's funny you should mention it. Because I almost posted this video on the "American" centrist party when I was trying to make my point to you earlier. Looks like we are in the same frame of mind, I think you might want to hold the insults to someones intelligence until you get the whole story and don't make assumptions. Nobody likes to have thier comments labeled "dumb". Truce.... (wait.... to many emoticons??)

[youtube]1G_aTIVmrO4[/youtube]
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Old 06-21-2008, 06:51 PM   #23
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Default Re: Guantanamo Bay = Jihad University?

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Originally Posted by Preacher View Post
Hammer....

The words of a famous...and infamous Navy Seal come back to me when reading your post. He was talking about the attitude of a state department worker in the mid-east.

"Why should anyone else die when Good ole Americans can die instead?"


The politicization of Vietnam rears it ugly head in many places.

Now, there are too many lawyers, too many politicians, too many been counters, and too few warriors in charge of wars.

Period.
Don't get me wrong. I don't want to add a 3rd party to the already bulging government. I would want to scale back the number of R's and D's to make room for the 3rd. I am definately a believer of to many chiefs and not enough indians!
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Old 06-21-2008, 07:25 PM   #24
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Default Re: Guantanamo Bay = Jihad University?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Preacher View Post
-If you're not a Moderator, don't feel compelled to act like one . . . Do not copy-paste quote sections of the rules at people

You know how annoying it is to have rules copy and pasted at you?




Also check out the constitution party...
Uh....yeah.
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Old 06-23-2008, 10:08 AM   #25
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Default Re: Guantanamo Bay = Jihad University?

Description of Ad Hominem
Translated from Latin to English, "Ad Hominem" means "against the man" or "against the person."

An Ad Hominem is a general category of fallacies in which a claim or argument is rejected on the basis of some irrelevant fact about the author of or the person presenting the claim or argument. Typically, this fallacy involves two steps. First, an attack against the character of person making the claim, her circumstances, or her actions is made (or the character, circumstances, or actions of the person reporting the claim). Second, this attack is taken to be evidence against the claim or argument the person in question is making (or presenting). This type of "argument" has the following form:


Person A makes claim X.
Person B makes an attack on person A.
Therefore A's claim is false.
The reason why an Ad Hominem (of any kind) is a fallacy is that the character, circumstances, or actions of a person do not (in most cases) have a bearing on the truth or falsity of the claim being made (or the quality of the argument being made).
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Old 06-23-2008, 10:09 AM   #26
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Default Re: Guantanamo Bay = Jihad University?

I wonder if the CIA has any "plants" down in Gitmo learning the ways of the enemy and sending them back to "work with the enemy" when they are really helping us.

As for the "don't return fire" post.

Ok, I understand how from a soldier or marine's perspective that would be troubling. But you have to look at the big picture of Good vs Evil. It would be really easy to take the steps the enemy takes and simply slaughter everyone not wearing the US Flag. It would be very easy to allow Army Dogs or Marines to go into a village and exterminate the entire population without quarter and maybe even impale a few bodies a long the way as a message to others. We could also crucify some local leaders just to make our point that we were not going to be "nice" about our warfare.

Its the slippery slope. Once you start returning fire then you start firing first. Once you start firing first, well then the targets start to all look the same and the line between the enemy and civilians is blurred very easily. Once that happens, then we are no better than the people we are fighting.

We don't make videos of us cutting off their heads. We don't quote the Bible when we blow up a building. We don't line up prisoners next to a ditch and shoot them all in the back of the end, dumping them in and covering them up as if they are just diseased animals.

We do prosecute those in our military that make errors, take things too far, or are unfair on the battle field. We don't use flame throwers because of the damage they cause. We tell our soldiers that shooting people with a .50 cal machine gun is not allowed, and that only vehicles and equipment can be shot with that cal round.

We try to be the "better" Army, the "better" warriors. There is a reason for it. We are the "good guys".

Being Bad is so much easier, and we chose to take the harder route.
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Old 06-23-2008, 11:28 AM   #27
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Default Re: Guantanamo Bay = Jihad University?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dino 5 Rings View Post
As for the "don't return fire" post.

Ok, I understand how from a soldier or marine's perspective that would be troubling. But you have to look at the big picture of Good vs Evil. It would be really easy to take the steps the enemy takes and simply slaughter everyone not wearing the US Flag. It would be very easy to allow Army Dogs or Marines to go into a village and exterminate the entire population without quarter and maybe even impale a few bodies a long the way as a message to others. We could also crucify some local leaders just to make our point that we were not going to be "nice" about our warfare.

Its the slippery slope. Once you start returning fire then you start firing first. Once you start firing first, well then the targets start to all look the same and the line between the enemy and civilians is blurred very easily. Once that happens, then we are no better than the people we are fighting.

We don't make videos of us cutting off their heads. We don't quote the Bible when we blow up a building. We don't line up prisoners next to a ditch and shoot them all in the back of the end, dumping them in and covering them up as if they are just diseased animals.

We do prosecute those in our military that make errors, take things too far, or are unfair on the battle field. We don't use flame throwers because of the damage they cause. We tell our soldiers that shooting people with a .50 cal machine gun is not allowed, and that only vehicles and equipment can be shot with that cal round.

We try to be the "better" Army, the "better" warriors. There is a reason for it. We are the "good guys".

Being Bad is so much easier, and we chose to take the harder route.
Dino, your working in a grey area here. In fact it is more black and white. As soldiers we were given the order "under no circumstances do you fire until fired upon" this included the enemy taking aim down his barrel at point blank range. Now obviously I new before I joined that I might come under fire. But to ask a soldier to look at the bussiness end of an enemy rifle and just stand there until he shoots you all in the name of political correctness and the standards that civilians sitting home watching from the comfort of thier lazyboy expect from the military is unrealistic and flat out fuct up! For christ sake a police officer is given the abilty to defend himself when a criminal raises a weapon or poses a threat to the officers life! PLEASE tell me where I am wrong in my feelings of resentment and angst towards these policies? I agree we need to be the "better men" but NOT at the expense of young soldiers who are in life threatening situations trying to survive.
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Old 06-23-2008, 11:38 AM   #28
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Default Re: Guantanamo Bay = Jihad University?

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Dino, your working in a grey area here. In fact it is more black and white. As soldiers we were given the order "under no circumstances do you fire until fired upon" this included the enemy taking aim down his barrel at point blank range. Now obviously I new before I joined that I might come under fire. But to ask a soldier to look at the bussiness end of an enemy rifle and just stand there until he shoots you all in the name of political correctness and the standards that civilians sitting home watching from the comfort of thier lazyboy expect from the military is unrealistic and flat out fuct up! For christ sake a police officer is given the abilty to defend himself when a criminal raises a weapon or poses a threat to the officers life! PLEASE tell me where I am wrong in my feelings of resentment and angst towards these policies? I agree we need to be the "better men" but NOT at the expense of young soldiers who are in life threatening situations trying to survive.
Its more than just political correctness. Its being in the right side. I understand that instinct is to shoot the bastrad before he gets off a shot. Especially when you're trained to fight.

but think about this. In Korea, we have guys standing on the border, for 40 years. Facing off against North Koreans. Tanks pointing at each other. And no one fires.

In Germany, on the border between East and West, our guys had to stand their and face off against Russians, with guns drawn, and not fire.

You are very much in the Right to have feelings of angst towards the policy. But it is the policy none the less and you must abide by it. Sorry, to say it.

I'd much rather allow our Soldiers and Marines to shoot everyone on sight. Trust me, I'm totally against having Gitmo because I see no need to take prisoners. But it is the current policy and any Marine or Soldier must follow his or her orders. Even if they disagree with the orders.
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Old 03-27-2009, 06:43 PM   #29
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Default Re: Guantanamo Bay = Jihad University?

since a "panic and blame obama" article seems to be the "news" of the day, i thought it was only appropriate to remind everyone bush has been planning on doing the exact same thing since 2007 but couldnt pull his head far enough out of his ass to figure out how to do it.

either that, or he just figured it would be easier to pawn off the self inflicted problem (and failed policy) to the next administration. whats new?

Table of Contents

Quote:
An eight-month McClatchy investigation of the detention system created after the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks has found that the U.S. imprisoned innocent men, subjected them to abuse, stripped them of their legal rights and allowed Islamic militants to turn the prison camp at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba into a school for jihad. Here's a guide to the contents of our online report.




Day One: We got the wrong guys


Day Two: 'I guess you can call it torture'


Day Three: A school for Jihad


Day Four: 'Due process is legal mumbo-jumbo'


Day Five: 'You are the king of this prison'



DETAINEES PROFILE DATABASE: Read 66 profiles and data cards of former U.S. detainees. Many have photos, audio or video.

READ THE EVIDENCE: Browse an archive of documents obtained by McClatchy in the course of this investigation.

VIDEO


About the project: Beyond the Law


Interview: Abdul Salam Zaeef
Interview: Nazar Chaman Gul


Interview: Haji Galib Hasan


Interview: Mohammed Nassim


Interview: Akhtar Mohammad


Interview: Amir Jan Ghorzang


Interview: Syed Ajan


Interview: Abdul Salam Zaeef


Interview: Mohammed Aman


Interview: Mohammed Naim Farouq



GRAPHICS (PDF FORMAT)




Supreme court rulings on Guantanamo


Detainee abuse and the rule of law


Facts about the detainees


Stories of 4 detainees


Where detainees were held


Detainees' homelands


The king of Guantanamo


Map of Afghanistan, Pakistan



PHOTO SLIDE SHOWS




Images of detainees held at Guantanamo


Images of detainees held in Afghanistan


Faces of detainees


More faces of detainees


heres the updated link to the article in the OP http://www.mcclatchydc.com/homepage/story/38779.html
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Old 03-27-2009, 07:04 PM   #30
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Default Re: Guantanamo Bay = Jihad University?

And as I said in the other thread, we wouldn't be worrying about this right now had our military been allowed to do its job to its fullest capability.
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