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Old 11-15-2005, 06:12 PM   #21
tony hipchest
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Default Re: Congratulations Hines Ward

Quote:
Originally Posted by Livinginthe past

If you are saying that Hines is not a flatout speed merchant and neither is Jerry Rice then that is fine...I thought maybe you were trying to compare their talent levels - my bad.



NM
thats not EXACTLY what i said but if i didnt state it clearly enough the 1st time:

" jerry rice proved you didnt need blazing speed to get open downfield."

lol. you sure read alot into that simple little comment!

you can pigeon hole him all you want but if ward went to the patriots and many other teams(about 20-22) it would take about 2 weeks to supplant their #1.

that is football reality
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Old 11-15-2005, 06:29 PM   #22
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Default Re: Congratulations Hines Ward

Quote:
Originally Posted by tony hipchest
actually hines it easilly a top 5
6 receiver. he doesnt drop the ball. still theres probably 10 teams who would (mistakingly) stick with what they got. i couldnt see detroit giving up on r. williams, gb with walker, texans with johnson etc. you dont think hines couldnt go to seattle and put up steve smith type numbers in that offense? what good is l. coles or s. moss type speed if you habitually drop balls? for A SLow possession wr, he sure is wide open quite a bit. and its not cause teams are double covering plexico this season. im trying to think what wr has had 100 rec. in a season, had double digit td's before, and 4 time pro bowler?

put him on any team today as the #2 rec and wait how long it takes him to supplant the #1 guy. like t. holt supplanting i bruce. then theres the rare case of the cardinals where boldin and fitzgerald dont need a #1 or #2 tag. this is how it should be with hines.

i guess i take it like saying deion branch doesnt have what it takes to be a #1 wr in the nfl or be a superbowl mvp. and hes too frail to be a #2 possession wr. but he would be the best #3 wr in the league. this is a pretty bogus statement cause you never know until put in the position to do so.

" I am aware that the Steelers do not pass much, but by the same token he has faced only 4 defenses of any note this season - New England, San Diego, Baltimore and Jacksonville."

if you count cincinatti (they were or are leading the league in turnovers/interceptions) that is 5 of 8 notable defenses. (of course theyre not ranked 1-5, that would be a record...or something) s. smith has faced miami, patrits, and tampa bay. no team has really faced more than 5 defenses of any note this season.

i see youre logic but the same logic could say ward sucks because green bay (not a defense of note) held hines to 1 catch for 13 yds.
Its an interesting to imagine how Hines might fit into other teams schemes seeing as he fits the Pittsburgh game plan so perfectly.

I think he could make it work just about anywhere - I think he could put up some nice numbers in a more pass oriented offense.

I wouldnt go as far as to say that you need elite speed to be a No.1 receiver but it certainly helps - possession receivers by their very nature are not exceptionally quick and tend not to drop the ball - two facets of Hines game we can agree on.

Hines Ward is undisputed No.1 receiver on the Pittsburgh team because of two things - he is talented and the fact there is also has been very little competition for him in recent history.

I am a little confused by the Deion Branch comment - pretty much all we have said so far has been hypothetical - whereas Branch has quite literally been SB MVP.

Regardless, I should clarify my original point a little better given your well made points.

Pittsburgh need to draft a big play, deep threat receiver who is made in the mould of the proto-type No.1 receiver - I believe this ying to Hines's yang would amount to a potent receiving team regardless of how people chose to perceive their status.

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The Patriots didn't bother with swagger to start this NFL season; they went straight to defiant. Either you're one of them or you're about to get crushed.
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Old 11-15-2005, 06:53 PM   #23
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Default Re: Congratulations Hines Ward

Quote:
Originally Posted by Livinginthe past

I am a little confused by the Deion Branch comment - pretty much all we have said so far has been hypothetical - whereas Branch has quite literally been SB MVP.



Pittsburgh need to draft a big play, deep threat receiver who is made in the mould of the proto-type No.1 receiver - I believe this ying to Hines's yang would amount to a potent receiving team regardless of how people chose to perceive their status.

NM
you mean plaxico burress? im sure the coaching staff is ontop of that. unless t.o. says cut c. wilson and i'll be a steeler for 2mil / yr. but the patriots have proven you dont need that proto-type guy, 3 of the past 4 years.

which brings me to branch. noone ever wouldve said he would be the mvp for the superbowl....until he was put in the position to do so.

heres a hypothetical about ward. what if he goes to the superbowl and catches a 50yd reverse td from randel el and an 85 yrd td from ben (like against the browns and patriots) and is awarded mvp, plus 4 other catches for 1st downs and 40 more yards, is he still just "the best 2nd receiver in the nfl"? (loosely quoted) he and the steelers with roethlisberger have the potential to do just that.
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Old 11-15-2005, 07:00 PM   #24
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Default Re: Congratulations Hines Ward

heres to Hines
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Old 11-15-2005, 07:09 PM   #25
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Default Re: Congratulations Hines Ward

Can't we all just get along.... Seriously Congrats to Hines.. it's well deserved
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Old 11-15-2005, 08:15 PM   #26
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Default Re: Congratulations Hines Ward

Quote:
Originally Posted by tony hipchest
you mean plaxico burress? im sure the coaching staff is ontop of that. unless t.o. says cut c. wilson and i'll be a steeler for 2mil / yr. but the patriots have proven you dont need that proto-type guy, 3 of the past 4 years.

which brings me to branch. noone ever wouldve said he would be the mvp for the superbowl....until he was put in the position to do so.

heres a hypothetical about ward. what if he goes to the superbowl and catches a 50yd reverse td from randel el and an 85 yrd td from ben (like against the browns and patriots) and is awarded mvp, plus 4 other catches for 1st downs and 40 more yards, is he still just "the best 2nd receiver in the nfl"? (loosely quoted) he and the steelers with roethlisberger have the potential to do just that.
I agree that the Patriots have shown you dont need the proto-typical No.1 receiver to achieve their success and I wasnt trying to say that the Steelers need one desperately - what I was trying to get across is that if they could pick one up in the draft they would be a much improved unit offensively.

Of course, the Steelers are not traditionally a team where receivers are likely to prosper as regards big numbers so maybe its a moot point anyway.

And as far as your hypothetical SB performance goes - i'd be quite happy to re-evaluate my position on Hines if he were to pull that sort of performance out of the bag!

I've enjoyed the debate as always - we have differing opinions on how highly we rate Hines and what label we would give him - but maybe we both agree that the Steelers should be looking for a genuine deep threat (preferably one with good size) in the upcoming draft?

Cheers

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The Patriots didn't bother with swagger to start this NFL season; they went straight to defiant. Either you're one of them or you're about to get crushed.
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Old 11-15-2005, 08:24 PM   #27
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Default Re: Congratulations Hines Ward

steelers didnt let plex go for lack of talent. and his numbers this season speak for themselves. it was a money issue and every team out there would like a t.o. or moss on their roster (without the distractions of course) being perfect at every position doesnt come at a cheap price and is pretty impossible in todays nfl. (im sure the patriots would like 4 starting calibur db's as back ups right now. a rookie wr is aways off from making an impact in the steelers offense immideately and im pretty happy with heath. if its between a c. johnson type of receiver opposite hines or ben or troy, i will take ben or troy anyday. our offensive line and rb's arent cheap either.
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Old 11-16-2005, 05:55 PM   #28
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Default Re: Congratulations Hines Ward

Wide receiver Hines Ward was named the AFC`s Offensive Player of the Week on Wednesday.

The eight-year veteran out of Georgia caught eight passes for 124 yards Sunday night against Cleveland. He also caught a touchdown pass and became Pittsburgh`s all-time receptions leader with 543 catches, surpassing Hall of Fame receiver John Stallworth.


link......... http://media3.steelers.com/article/59342/
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Old 11-16-2005, 06:51 PM   #29
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Default Re: Congratulations Hines Ward

Congratulations Hines...great job!!!
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Old 11-16-2005, 07:03 PM   #30
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Default Re: Congratulations Hines Ward

Past, and Tony

There are so many points here to debate! And you both have describe Hines Ward to a T.
Yet you really can`t agree on anything, yet your saying the same thing????

Hines is great!
Hines has some great hands, he hangs on to EVERYTHING!
Hines has average or better speed!
Hines gets open, not always a deigned route, but he gets open!
Hines is the toughest wr in the league. No argueing here?? he gets up every time!
Hines is the best blocking wr, maybe ever?
Hines is a topnotch irreplaceable team player!
Hines is a great No.1 wr, but maybe not the best. Tony
Hines could be the best no.2 wr ever. Past

Its kind of a toss up! I think Hines would be even better if we had a bonafide No.1. Hey Scottie Pippen was always a No.2 and he will be in the HOF wearing six rings!

Hines you are No.1 to all of us , congrats.
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