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Old 07-17-2008, 11:32 PM   #1
xfl2001fan
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Thumbs up Because I can

(Posted this on Browns247 as well, really tired though cuz my 9 month old won't sleep...so not sure how good this is...can't wait for the reaction.)

ESPN just completed positional rankings for all 32 teams in the NFL. Using those rankings, I compiled the entire AFC North. When I'm much more awake I'll likely do this for all 32 teams so that we can see how we stand up the rest of the NFL.

The lower the numbers, the better. A first place voting in OL gives you 1 point. A 25 (Baltimore) is worth 25. Why complicate the issue further than that with mathematical reversals and such.

The Offensive Categories were as follows, QB, HB, WR, TE and OL
The Defensive Categories were as follows, DL, LB, DB
I threw the Special Teams in with defense, just because I hate doing averages with the number 3



Cleveland Browns
Offense - 4 out of 5 positions, the Browns ranked top 10 (2 were in the top 3). Only their HB failed to make it and they were 16th there. The 36 total points puts us as the best in the AFC North. Number 2 was 22 points greater. This also averages out to 7.2. Keep in mind, that doesn't mean we're the 7th best Offense in the NFL, we're actually likely to be better than that, it just let's us know how the 5 rankings average out. Our O-line was our best unit and rated as the best unit in the NFL. As indicated above, HB was our worst, and at 16th, it's still (technically) top half of the league.

Defense - Only our Special Teams was top 10 (#2), coupled with our DL (#13) those were the only two spots that were considered Top half of the league. Our secondary (as expected) hurt us pretty bad, sitting at #30. We ended up with 63 total points, which averaged 15.8. It still averages out as if it's top half of the league, but it's only good for #3 in the AFCN.

Overall - We totaled out with 99 points, which gave us an average score of 11. That was enough to put us as the top team in the AFCN

Pittsburgh Steelers
Offense - 3 out of 5 positions were top 10 in the league. However, their biggest weakness was their O-line, and at 24, that's a bad number to have in the most important position in the game. Their 58 points (11.6 AVG) was second in the AFCN.

Defense - Only their DL made it to the top 10 (#7), the other true defensive positions were still in the top half of the league. Their 21st ranking for Special teams is what hurt them the most on this set up. Even with that, their 56 points was good for 2nd in the AFCN, but that was nearly double the #1 D in the AFCN.

Overall - Their 114 points was good for 2nd in the AFCN (imagine that!) Their 12.7 points is just a hairbreadth behind the Browns.

Baltimore Ravens
Offense - Only their TE (16) made it in the top half of the league. That's how pitiful they look. Their 104 points (and 20.8 avg) is easily the worst in the AFCN and potentially bottom 1/3 in the league.

Defense - Every rating made it into the top 10 as this is easily the strength of the team. No real surprise there. Their 29 points was nearly half of the points that Pittsburgh had and their 7.23 avg is likely to be top 5 in the league.

Overall - As is expected of Baltimore, their defense outshines their offense here, and the 133 points that they put up is good for third in the AFCN. Their 14.9 avg leaves a larger gap between the Steelers and themselves (2.2) as what is between the Browns and the Steelers (1.7).

Cincinnati Bengals
Offense - 2 of the positions are top 5, 1 is top half of the league, but their HB and TE leave much to be desired. Their 71 points (14.2) is nearly double what the Browns have and good for third in the AFCN.

Defense - Their best rating on defense was 24th. It's that bad and likely the worst in the NFL. Their 102 points on defense was more than what the Browns had as a team and 12 shy of the Steelers total.

Overall - They totaled out at 173 points for a rediculously low 19.2 avg. Enough said


ULTIMATELY
What this means is nothing. Going into last season, the Browns surely weren't considerd an offensive juggernaut. With Bentley out for another year, their line wasn't going to be that good. Their WR's hadn't proved much other than TE KW2 was a good TE. J-Lew was washed up.

There's a whole season ahead of us with more surprises, twists and turns awaiting. Cincinnati could end up with the best defense in the league, Baltimore's offense could come together under Troy Smith and light the league on fire. The Steelers and Browns could both be cellar dwellars. Anything is possible, but I like the way these numbers add up!
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Old 07-18-2008, 12:41 AM   #2
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Old 07-18-2008, 12:55 AM   #3
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Originally Posted by xfl2001fan View Post
ULTIMATELY
What this means is nothing.
Exactly.

Next...
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Old 07-18-2008, 01:21 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xfl2001fan View Post
(Posted this on Browns247 as well, really tired though cuz my 9 month old won't sleep...
Dude you should be more productive with you're time and sleep!
Because this was a waste of time! Before you get all pissy and lash out.....it has nothing to do with your browns coming out on top(although that is worth a laugh) it's about what is worth loosing sleep over! You aparently need it with the baby and all, and the time spent on this tripe was wasted imo. ESPN after all still has Sean Salsbury on the payroll and that doesn't speak well of thier ability to find analytical talent!

Get some sleep bro.
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Old 07-18-2008, 01:35 AM   #5
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numbers are fun!

Quote:
Originally Posted by xfl2001fan View Post

Pittsburgh Steelers
Offense - 3 out of 5 positions were top 10 in the league. However, their biggest weakness was their O-line, and at 24, that's a bad number to have in the most important position in the game. Their 58 points (11.6 AVG) was second in the AFCN.
and here i thought the qb was the "most important position in the game".

the ONLY reason the steelers o-line has all the pundits thinking it is so poor, is because of sacks allowed. but average pundits dont take the time to dig a little deeper....

ben- 2nd in passer rating, 3rd in td's and yards per attempt (considered one of the most telling qb statistics) 3rd = (tied with manning and favre) whereas DA is 12th tied with palmer.

looks like the best o-line in the league dont mean squat if you dont have a qb to deliver.

cleveland- 8th in pts scored, steelers 9th (both behind the cardinals who were 7th) dont look like the best o-line has much of a difference in points scored. those are the points that really matter.

running backs are pretty important too:

willie parker- 4th in yards rushing. jamal lewis was 5th. so what good is the greatest line in the nfl in regards to this stat?

steelers- 3rd over all
cleveland- 10th over all

how does a team possibly pull that off without the most dominant line in the league?

with a 103 more passing attempts derrick anderson only threw for 633 more yards than ben. that (+ his 56.5 vs bens 65.3 completion percentage) shows DA is much more prone to just throwing the ball away to avoid a sack (and making his line look much better than it actually is) as opposed to trying to make a play and possibly taking a sack.

often times a qb risking taking a sack and making a play is the difference between making the playoffs ansd sitting at home.



cleveland fans keep hanging their hat on the opinion that they have the 5 best o-linemen in the league. that isnt worth much if the opposition has 17 of the other 22 starters who are better.

so really, if the browns line is so great, and the steelers line so poor (according to the #24 ranking you quote and assertion that o-line is the "most important position in the game") how do you explain the steelers beating the browns in most of these statistical categories?

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Old 07-18-2008, 01:54 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tony hipchest View Post
often times a qb risking taking a sack and making a play is the difference between making the playoffs ansd sitting at home.



Boys and Girls.

This says it all, right here!
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Old 07-18-2008, 09:09 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by Hammer Of The GODS View Post
Dude you should be more productive with you're time and sleep!
Because this was a waste of time! Before you get all pissy and lash out.....it has nothing to do with your browns coming out on top(although that is worth a laugh) it's about what is worth loosing sleep over! You aparently need it with the baby and all, and the time spent on this tripe was wasted imo. ESPN after all still has Sean Salsbury on the payroll and that doesn't speak well of thier ability to find analytical talent!

Get some sleep bro.
Actually, I was in the rocking chair with my 9 month old when I was typing this up. If I put him down, in his swing, gave him to his mom, he'd cry. So it was hold him and type (to at least keep the mind semi-active) or put him down and let him scream so that the wife couldn't sleep either. Seemed a fair trade off.
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Old 07-18-2008, 09:28 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tony hipchest View Post
numbers are fun!



and here i thought the qb was the "most important position in the game".

the ONLY reason the steelers o-line has all the pundits thinking it is so poor, is because of sacks allowed. but average pundits dont take the time to dig a little deeper....

ben- 2nd in passer rating, 3rd in td's and yards per attempt (considered one of the most telling qb statistics) 3rd = (tied with manning and favre) whereas DA is 12th tied with palmer.

looks like the best o-line in the league dont mean squat if you dont have a qb to deliver.

cleveland- 8th in pts scored, steelers 9th (both behind the cardinals who were 7th) dont look like the best o-line has much of a difference in points scored. those are the points that really matter.

running backs are pretty important too:

willie parker- 4th in yards rushing. jamal lewis was 5th. so what good is the greatest line in the nfl in regards to this stat?

steelers- 3rd over all
cleveland- 10th over all

how does a team possibly pull that off without the most dominant line in the league?

with a 103 more passing attempts derrick anderson only threw for 633 more yards than ben. that (+ his 56.5 vs bens 65.3 completion percentage) shows DA is much more prone to just throwing the ball away to avoid a sack (and making his line look much better than it actually is) as opposed to trying to make a play and possibly taking a sack.

often times a qb risking taking a sack and making a play is the difference between making the playoffs ansd sitting at home.



cleveland fans keep hanging their hat on the opinion that they have the 5 best o-linemen in the league. that isnt worth much if the opposition has 17 of the other 22 starters who are better.

so really, if the browns line is so great, and the steelers line so poor (according to the #24 ranking you quote and assertion that o-line is the "most important position in the game") how do you explain the steelers beating the browns in most of these statistical categories?

1 - It was late, I was tired. I know I had said that.
2 - This wasn't my set of rankings. I didn't say the Steelers had the 24th best line or that the Browns had the best line. I even mentioned that this whole thing was based on what ESPN put out.
3 - I gave the final analysis and it was that Ulitmately, it meant nothing.
4 - "QB is the most important position" has been spun out by idiotic sports pundits for years. It's easy to sit and say that. However, when you look at every SB winner, when you look at the perinnial SB contenders, the one thing they all have in common is a good offensive line. Baltimores lone SB did not have a good QB. It had an OK QB with a good running game, good offensive line and good defense. The guys who go deepest into the playoffs are the guys who's lines win their battles. It sets the tone for the entire team.

If you were to take all of the Steelers "skill players" and put them behind an offensive line like what the Browns were sporting in 1999-2006, they would all suck. Yup, Hines Ward, Big Ben, FWP would all be bums. Those O-lines wouldn't have made it to #31 on this list (and if they did, then it would really show how much crack these ESPN writers were smoking.)

As for the Steelers success vs the Browns, it's easy to have success vs the Browns when we have no defense (particularly a defensive line). If you can't stop the run (and we couldn't) and you can't stop the pass (we did better there, but not top 10) you won't beat quality opponents. You'll play inconsistently (as shown by one win last season vs opponents with a winning record).

Hopefully our D-line shows drastic improvement (because we'll need it). Hopefully, an improvement in our D-line will equate to pressure generated on the QB (because we'll really need that). Hopefully, this will keep our young and relatively inexperienced secondary from....you get the point. But if the line is broke, the rest of the defense is broke. Same with our offense. If our line is broke, we won't do nearly as well.
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Old 07-18-2008, 12:03 PM   #9
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This is easy to throw out, because Derek Anderson won't be a top 10 QB (in fact, he probably won't be starting by late October...dude is a career backup who sold his soul to the devil for one PB year) and the Browns DL is completely unproven (and was probably #32 last year). The Steelers LB corp SHOULD be top 10 and those few things right there are enough to make this about as plausible as Bigfoot.

Besides, I'm certainly willing to concede "on paper" championships to the Browns. That's likely the only kind they are ever going to see. Perhaps you can make up some t-shirts...
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Old 07-18-2008, 12:07 PM   #10
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"QB is the most important position" has been spun out by idiotic sports pundits for years.
It's not idiotic opinion, it's fact. If OL was more important than QB in determining a SB winner, we'd have at least 8, and very possibly 9 Lombardi Trophies right now instead of 5.
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