Why register with the Steelers Fever Forums?
 • Intelligent and friendly discussions.
 • It's free and it's quick. Always.
 • Enter events in the forums calendar.
 • Very user friendly software.
 • Exclusive contests and giveaways.

 Donate to Steelers Fever, Click here
 Our 2013 Goal: $400.00 - To Date: $00.00 (00.00%)
 Home | Forums | Editorials | Shop | Tickets | Downloads | Contact Pittsburgh Steelers Forum Feed Not Just Fans. Hardcore Fans.

Go Back   Steelers Fever Forums > Miscellaneous > Locker Room


Steelers Fever Fan Shop

Doc's Sports Get FREE NFL Picks and College Football picks as well as Football Lines like live NFL Lines and updated NFL Power Rankings all at Doc's Sports Service.

Steelers Steelers - Bills Bills
August 16th, 2014, 7:30pmET

CBS
Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 09-23-2008, 12:59 PM   #1
Mosca
Team President
Supporter
 
Mosca's Avatar
 

Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Mountain Top, PA
Posts: 2,397
Gender: Male
Member Number: 1751
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default Conservative Gregg Easterbrook takes Both Dems and Reps to task for crisis

From today's TMQ....


Gimme! Gimme! Gimme! Last week, TMQ asked why no one was paying attention to the fact that the national debt ceiling was quietly raised by $800 billion during the summer. Well, toss that column: The White House just asked the national debt ceiling be raised another $700 billion, for the proposed financial-sector bailout. If that happens, in 2008 alone, $1.5 trillion will have been added to the national debt: every penny borrowed from your children and their children. Stated in today's dollars, in 1979 the entire national debt was $1.5 trillion. George W. Bush and Congress have in a single year added an amount equal to the entire national debt one generation ago. And the year's not over!

It took the United States 209 years, from the founding of the republic till 1998, to compile the first $5 trillion in national debt. In the decade since, $6 trillion in debt has been added. This means the United States has borrowed more money in the past decade than in all our previous history combined. Almost all the borrowing has been under the direction of George W. Bush -- at this point Bush makes Kenneth Lay seem like a paragon of fiscal caution. Democrats deserve ample blame, too. Harry Reid and Nancy Pelosi, Democratic leaders of the Senate and House, have never met a bailout they didn't like: Harry and Nancy just can't wait to spend your children's money. Six trillion dollars borrowed in a single decade and $1.5 trillion borrowed in 2008 alone. Charles Ponzi would be embarrassed.

If you borrowed, borrowed, borrowed, you could afford to live high for a while -- then there would be a reckoning. Hmmm that sounds a little like what many Americans did with gimmick mortgages in 2005 and 2006. They were only imitating their political leadership! Why is it both parties in Washington think the United States can borrow, borrow, borrow without a reckoning ever coming? Bush, Reid and Pelosi seem poised to transfer hundreds of billions of dollars of borrowed public money to political insiders on Wall Street and in banking, whose bonuses will now be tax-subsidized. The capitalist maxim is, "She who reaps the gains also bears the losses." Now Washington wants those who reaped the gains to shift the losses to those who lived humbly. The young will pay and pay for these cynical ploys to insure the luxury of the powerful old. Why aren't the young outraged?

TMQ's pal Isabelle Sawhill, among the leading public-policy economists of our day, says Washington does indeed need to intervene in the financial system -- the harm to the average person of letting credit markets freeze would be greater, she thinks, than the harm caused by more public debt. Fair enough. But it doesn't inspire confidence that on Sept. 12, Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson said the financial system had been fixed and "under no circumstances" would there be further bailouts; on Friday, Paulson said the system was collapsing and another $700 billion was needed. Suddenly Paulson is insisting the country has no choice other than immediately to hand over $700 billion to Wall Street fat cats, with barely any debate or even explanation of the plan. Why should anyone believe this guy, when just one week previously he said no further bailouts would occur? It seems clear Paulson had no idea what he was talking about then, while if the problem is really as bad as Paulson says now, his past delay in facing the problem has made the cost far higher. With such a poor track record, why is the treasury secretary suddenly viewed as a superbrilliant genius whose marching orders must be followed?

It is not public intervention that is objectionable. University of Chicago Nobel Prize winner Gary Becker, among the top conservative economists, just said, "I have reluctantly concluded that substantial intervention was justified." Rather it is size of the bailout, and the hurry-up-give-the-money-don't-stop-to-think aspect, that are troubling. Much of the $700 billion will flow to investment-community friends of Paulson, Bush and other administration figures. Average Americans who behaved irresponsibly by signing gimmick mortgages may get some taxpayer aid from the Paulson proposal, and maybe they should get none. But in the end, average Americans will still be liable for most of what they owe -- that is, will still be held responsible for their actions. Wealthy, politically connected insiders who run banks and companies such as American International Group will be exempt for responsibility for their actions, and will stuff taxpayer-subsidized millions into their pockets.

On Sunday, Paulson called the self-serving actions of top Wall Street figures "inexcusable" -- yet the plan is not only to excuse them, but to shower them with free money. Paulson said Wall Street pay levels were "excessive," but should be discussed later, after the bailout is done. Now is the moment of maximum leverage! Once they are holding the public's money and laughing about how easily they got it, financial executives will have no incentive to compromise on pay. Here's an idea: Any company that participates in the bailout agrees to limit its top-tier executives to the federal minimum wage. That is, after all, the amount Washington says is enough to live on. Meanwhile, of the two jokers who drove Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac into the ground, one was paid $19.8 million in 2007, the other $14 million; each will get nearly $5 million in taxpayer-funded "retirement" bennies.

Yet there's scant outrage. Maybe this is because in an era of fiscal irresponsibility by both parties, everybody wants a bailout. Wall Street, bankers, homeowners who lied on their mortgage applications, Detroit automakers, farmers -- gimme, gimme, gimme! Rather than asking whether the $700 billion giveaway is too large or being structured in a way that benefits the rich, numerous members of Congress are instead demanding more bailouts be appended: for seniors (see below), cities, states, more "stimulus" checks, you name it. Give money to whoever will fund my re-election! The money is being forcibly extracted from the pockets of our children and their children. Every dollar borrowed today by the irresponsible old of Washington will subtract two dollars from future economic growth, leaving our children and their children a legacy of stagnation.

The 1980 Chrysler bailout, which was nationally debated for months before happening, cost $3.2 billion, in present-value dollars, and was financed by revenue rather than by borrowing. Here is the borrowing that's happened in 2008 alone, with precious little public debate:

$29 billion to bail out Bear Stearns.

$40 billion in the first mortgage-holder bailout.

$80 billion for an additional year of Iraq war operations. (Another $150-$200 billion in war costs such as future veterans' disability benefits were incurred but not funded.)

Up to $85 billion to bail out AIG.

$153 billion to households for "economic stimulus."

$200 billion, and possibly more, to bail out Fannie and Freddie.

$290 billion in farm subsidies, despite agricultural prices and grains profits being at record highs.

$700 billion general bailout of securities backed by bad debt. (The International Monetary Fund estimates this figure will rise to at least $1 trillion.)

That comes to $1.6 trillion, explaining the debt-ceiling rise, and does not include roughly $300 billion in essentially interest-free cash issued to banks by the Federal Reserve on an emergency basis, which may or may not be repaid, but which in any case make all existing money somewhat less valuable. Why is the debt aspect of the splurge barely being remarked on by the mainstream media and by politicians? Why are the young not furious? And about that $700 billion about to the shoveled to the Wall Street elite -- in 2007, George W. Bush vetoed an increase of $7 billion per year in health care spending for the poor, saying the country couldn't afford it.
Mosca is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-23-2008, 03:32 PM   #2
X-Terminator
Mr. Wrong
Supporter
 
X-Terminator's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 6,881
Gender: Male
Member Number: 2550
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default Re: Conservative Gregg Easterbrook takes Both Dems and Reps to task for crisis

Yep, more examples of the government raping the little guy to benefit the rich guys who put big bucks into their campaigns.

I can't even begin to think about how this mess can be fixed, but I DO know that I and every other taxpayer on this board should look forward to their share of the pie that feed those blood-suckers in Washington to go up, no matter who wins the Presidency.
__________________
X-Terminator is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-23-2008, 04:19 PM   #3
Preacher
Living Legend
 

Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 3,890
Member Number: 16327
Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Default Re: Conservative Gregg Easterbrook takes Both Dems and Reps to task for crisis

See...

THIS is all I am asking for. a NON-PARTISAN discussion. NOWHERE in this article can you point and say he is advocating for a party or a person for president. It is an honest-to-goodness discussion of the PROBLEM.

Thank you for that article.

And again, it highlights what I started in another thread... which probably should be merged with this one now...

My problem is that we have put the power-hungry in charge of the money over the money hungry. Yeah, that is going to work out well...

my other problem is that if there is a bailout... then the execs. MUST be held accountable and fall in line with a preset salary.


I think a good figure, would be to set the salary to the level of congress! That way, if there is complaint about how much they pay.. then congress has to justify THEIR pay as well!
Preacher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-23-2008, 05:04 PM   #4
revefsreleets
Living Legend
 
revefsreleets's Avatar
 

Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Akron, Ohio Home of LeBron James
Posts: 15,403
Gender: Male
Member Number: 5353
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default Re: Conservative Gregg Easterbrook takes Both Dems and Reps to task for crisis

The problem I see is this: Why the rush? Why do we have a 2 1/2 page proposal that HAS to be passed in 24 hours?

No offense, but giant gains/losses in power during moments of crisis scare the EFF out of me.
__________________
Official Steelersfever Arians Nuthugger
revefsreleets is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-23-2008, 05:34 PM   #5
Preacher
Living Legend
 

Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 3,890
Member Number: 16327
Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Default Re: Conservative Gregg Easterbrook takes Both Dems and Reps to task for crisis

Quote:
Originally Posted by revefsreleets View Post
The problem I see is this: Why the rush? Why do we have a 2 1/2 page proposal that HAS to be passed in 24 hours?

No offense, but giant gains/losses in power during moments of crisis scare the EFF out of me.
I think the argument would go... though I am doing this off the top of my head....

That they are trying to keep foriegn money in the US through wall street. If foreign money was pulled out quickly, it may start a massive deflationary cycle.

Massive deflation has another name. Depression.
Preacher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-23-2008, 06:44 PM   #6
Mosca
Team President
Supporter
 
Mosca's Avatar
 

Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Mountain Top, PA
Posts: 2,397
Gender: Male
Member Number: 1751
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default Re: Conservative Gregg Easterbrook takes Both Dems and Reps to task for crisis

Quote:
Originally Posted by revefsreleets View Post
The problem I see is this: Why the rush? Why do we have a 2 1/2 page proposal that HAS to be passed in 24 hours?

No offense, but giant gains/losses in power during moments of crisis scare the EFF out of me.
That was my first thought as well; what's the rush? the grocery stores are still open, the TV stations are broadcasting, there are no cars burning in the streets. There are no angry mobs. Sit down, look it through, and take the time to pass a bill FREE OF PORK that addresses the issue of ensuring the economy, but without the ensuring the yacht and the second vacation house.
Mosca is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-23-2008, 07:07 PM   #7
revefsreleets
Living Legend
 
revefsreleets's Avatar
 

Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Akron, Ohio Home of LeBron James
Posts: 15,403
Gender: Male
Member Number: 5353
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default Re: Conservative Gregg Easterbrook takes Both Dems and Reps to task for crisis

Let me clarify: I love the idea of simplicity. How many pages is our tax code up to now? 400,000? But I'm a tad worried about giving a very few people what amounts to almost absolute control over what could be called the cornerstone of capitalism.

I'm not a conspiracy theorist (well, not a big one anyway) but these kind of things make me wonder...

A little "stop and think this over" equates to an ounce of prevention in my book...
__________________
Official Steelersfever Arians Nuthugger
revefsreleets is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-23-2008, 07:46 PM   #8
tony hipchest
IRONMAN a.k.a. Tony Stark
 
tony hipchest's Avatar
 

Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Give me back my game...
Posts: 38,545
Member Number: 658
Thanks: 1,609
Thanked 6,746 Times in 2,925 Posts
Default Re: Conservative Gregg Easterbrook takes Both Dems and Reps to task for crisis

Quote:
in 2007, George W. Bush vetoed an increase of $7 billion per year in health care spending for the poor, saying the country couldn't afford it.
i guess welfare is only good if its for the corporations and 1% in the upper echelon.

the whole article is frighteningly disgusting. the thought of these folks getting tax breaks is even worse.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Preacher View Post

My problem is that we have put the power-hungry in charge of the money over the money hungry. Yeah, that is going to work out well...
question? we all know money = power.

im wondering what parameters you use to seperate the money hungry/power hungry into 2 seperate groups?
__________________
tony hipchest is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-23-2008, 08:01 PM   #9
Preacher
Living Legend
 

Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 3,890
Member Number: 16327
Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Default Re: Conservative Gregg Easterbrook takes Both Dems and Reps to task for crisis

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mosca View Post
That was my first thought as well; what's the rush? the grocery stores are still open, the TV stations are broadcasting, there are no cars burning in the streets. There are no angry mobs. Sit down, look it through, and take the time to pass a bill FREE OF PORK that addresses the issue of ensuring the economy, but without the ensuring the yacht and the second vacation house.
Preacher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-23-2008, 08:09 PM   #10
Preacher
Living Legend
 

Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 3,890
Member Number: 16327
Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Default Re: Conservative Gregg Easterbrook takes Both Dems and Reps to task for crisis

Quote:
Originally Posted by tony hipchest View Post
i guess welfare is only good if its for the corporations and 1% in the upper echelon.

the whole article is frighteningly disgusting. the thought of these folks getting tax breaks is even worse.



question? we all know money = power.

im wondering what parameters you use to seperate the money hungry/power hungry into 2 seperate groups?
The politicians are power first... money second. Wall Street is money first, power second.

Maybe I should have said money hungry/POLITICAL power hungry.

Quote:
i guess welfare is only good if its for the corporations and 1% in the upper echelon.

the whole article is frighteningly disgusting. the thought of these folks getting tax breaks is even worse.
Those corps. rep. NUMEROUS jobs, not to mention yours and my retirement funds. So it is a little more complicated than that. BUt in essence I agree, if a company fails... IT FAILS.

I am for free-markets and capitalism. If I don't want govt. regulation, then I DEFINITELY don't want govt. bailouts either.

And that is the prob. WHat do you do when you have to bail out corps, because the retirement and jobs of so many of the average joe is hurt???

The answer is neither over-regulation, nor is it TURNING A BLIND EYE.

That is why I think Mosca's idea makes a LOT of sense. Take your time, do it right.

Heck, get a couple wall-street moguls in that HAVE made the RIGHT choices, put them with a few senators and let them talk.

Stick Even Bayh, dem from Indiana (I beleive) on it with another dem and a couple Republicans and WORK IT OUT.
Preacher is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:58 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Shoutbox provided by vBShout v6.2.1 (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2014 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging v3.0.8 (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2014 DragonByte Technologies Ltd. Runs best on HiVelocity Hosting.
Navbar with Avatar by Motorradforum
no new posts