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Old 10-12-2008, 06:08 PM   #11
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Default Re: Non-Partisan political question... yes it can happen.

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Good points - never really thought of it that way....
That's why these threads are fun....

I am even questioning some of my answers.

Because California comes back into play. It doesn't take 50.001 percent to win the state, just 25 percent instead of 23 percent... in other words, every vote becomes important to directly elect the president.

Hmmm

FS... did we just switch positions here??
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Old 10-12-2008, 06:10 PM   #12
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Default Re: Non-Partisan political question... yes it can happen.

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Not so, winning California by 60% still leaves a large number of votes that go to conservatives. Winning those big states big is the only way that you could pull that off...and states like Ohio (though large) are still relatively close in the deciding votes.

I have never liked the Electoral College and never will. If I remember right, there have been several presidents who lost the election even though they had a larger number of votes nationally.

A republic of states is great and all, but the President is not about states...but the head of the nation as an entity...and the electoral college takes away from that IMO.

Why should a small handful of states determine who leads our country?
Actually, there have only been 2 presidents that won the pop. vote, but lost the election.

The question I would as you is, is the nation the people, or is it the states united? I see it as the states united, not as the people themselves. That is why States rights is so important, because each state can choose to do what they want.
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Old 10-12-2008, 06:12 PM   #13
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Default Re: Non-Partisan political question... yes it can happen.

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That's why these threads are fun....

I am even questioning some of my answers.

Because California comes back into play. It doesn't take 50.001 percent to win the state, just 25 percent instead of 23 percent... in other words, every vote becomes important to directly elect the president.

Hmmm

FS... did we just switch positions here??
Looks like it.

Seriously though, there are compelling arguments both for and against the Electoral College.
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Old 10-12-2008, 06:18 PM   #14
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Default Re: Non-Partisan political question... yes it can happen.

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Actually, there have only been 2 presidents that won the pop. vote, but lost the election.

The question I would as you is, is the nation the people, or is it the states united? I see it as the states united, not as the people themselves. That is why States rights is so important, because each state can choose to do what they want.
I knew that there was at least one who had gone through that.

I look at the it like this. There is this phrase that's pretty well known in our history.

We the people...

That alone tells me that there is a difference in Federal and State governments. Because we're electing a leader for the National level, it should be a national vote.
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Old 10-12-2008, 06:22 PM   #15
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Default Re: Non-Partisan political question... yes it can happen.

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Not so, winning California by 60% still leaves a large number of votes that go to conservatives. Winning those big states big is the only way that you could pull that off...and states like Ohio (though large) are still relatively close in the deciding votes.

I have never liked the Electoral College and never will. If I remember right, there have been several presidents who lost the election even though they had a larger number of votes nationally.

A republic of states is great and all, but the President is not about states...but the head of the nation as an entity...and the electoral college takes away from that IMO.

Why should a small handful of states determine who leads our country?
But in a state like California, with let's say 20 million registered voters out of 40 million people, an 80-20 split could mean a difference of about 10 million votes. That's a pretty significant number and more total votes than nearly 1/3 of the country combined. To me, it wouldn't make any difference - the number of registered voters in the most populous states would still hold all of the cards if you went to a popular vote. Why would candidates need to campaign in Montana or Wyoming when those states would mean jack when it comes to electing the President? Their votes in the grand scheme of things would mean absolutely nothing, because you'd basically be telling them that they don't matter.
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Old 10-12-2008, 06:25 PM   #16
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Default Re: Non-Partisan political question... yes it can happen.

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But in a state like California, with let's say 20 million registered voters out of 40 million people, an 80-20 split could mean a difference of about 10 million votes. That's a pretty significant number and more total votes than nearly 1/3 of the country combined. To me, it wouldn't make any difference - the number of registered voters in the most populous states would still hold all of the cards if you went to a popular vote. Why would candidates need to campaign in Montana or Wyoming when those states would mean jack when it comes to electing the President? Their votes in the grand scheme of things would mean absolutely nothing, because you'd basically be telling them that they don't matter.
How much of that 80-20 split is because republicans don't bother to vote at all knowing that their vote doesn't matter?

Also, the electoral college is based (partially) on the size of a states population.
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Old 10-12-2008, 06:28 PM   #17
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Default Re: Non-Partisan political question... yes it can happen.

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How much of that 80-20 split is because republicans don't bother to vote at all knowing that their vote doesn't matter?

Also, the electoral college is based (partially) on the size of a states population.
I gotta admit, that is a VERY fair question.

I know I am going to vote, but feel it is a waste of my time. I am only voting because it IS my civic duty.
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Old 10-12-2008, 06:33 PM   #18
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Default Re: Non-Partisan political question... yes it can happen.

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Actually, there have only been 2 presidents that won the pop. vote, but lost the election.

The question I would as you is, is the nation the people, or is it the states united?
I see it as the states united, not as the people themselves. That is why States rights is so important, because each state can choose to do what they want.
then it should be changed from "we the people" to "we the states" ......
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Old 10-12-2008, 06:35 PM   #19
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Default Re: Non-Partisan political question... yes it can happen.

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How much of that 80-20 split is because republicans don't bother to vote at all knowing that their vote doesn't matter?

Also, the electoral college is based (partially) on the size of a states population.
That's a good point, especially in California, which is so heavily Democratic that I don't know why Republican presidential candidates even bother running (though Gov. Ahhhh-nold is an R).

Yes, the Electoral College is partially based on state population, but a full national election would cause the same problem, though on a larger scale, IMO, that you say the EC causes. So what do you do? Also, the incidence of voter fraud would grow exponentially if you had a national election - something else to consider.
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Old 10-12-2008, 06:42 PM   #20
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Default Re: Non-Partisan political question... yes it can happen.

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That's a good point, especially in California, which is so heavily Democratic that I don't know why Republican presidential candidates even bother running (though Gov. Ahhhh-nold is an R).

Yes, the Electoral College is partially based on state population, but a full national election would cause the same problem, though on a larger scale, IMO, that you say the EC causes. So what do you do? Also, the incidence of voter fraud would grow exponentially if you had a national election - something else to consider.

I gotta admit. Part of the reason I don't want it to change is the antiquity and rarity of such a system.

For some reason, it just seems to be very Americaneusqe.
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